There's an uptick in Amazon employees quitting | Hacker News Reader

There's an uptick in Amazon employees quitting

businessinsider.com

43 pointsrokkitmensch24 comments

Planned all along. Many roles were hired as remote, with then requiring people to relocate for RTO. Easiest way to downsize.

The real reason for RTO is of course tax benefits that Amazon gets from local/state governments only if there are buts in seats in the office buildings (since people coming into the office means they are in the area which means that they spend money in local restaurants/shops, e.t.c)

One think I've always wondered about RTO measures is, can they force you to choose bewteen RTO or resign? Or to they have to fire you (and with that entitle you to whatever compensation you deserve)?

How do you force someone to resign?

That's what I'm asking?

It's referred to as Constructive Dismissal.

It's basically the idea that you're being subjected to something outside of your contract that has made it impossible (in your view) to keep working for the company, and the company is not willing to accomodate you.

Refusing to go to office when your contract says you are a remote employee is a textbook case of constructive dismissal.

"You are placing a requirement on me that I find impossible to satisfy and you are not willing to negotiate. Therefore I am forced to resign"

Either they start coming to the office or their employment will be terminated. It’s not a resignation.

I heard that in Japan they will almost never fire someone, for various reasons. So when it's time to go there are stories of peoples desk being moved to the cupboard for example.

Or the added requirement to file additional TPM reports, possibly.

Are people entitled to severance in the USA?

I thought severance packages generally come with some considerations about indemnifying the company and such. Its a deal, not an entitlement.

Forcing an employee to resign is a "Constructive Dismissal" and there's plenty of case law around it.

No. There’s mandatory unemployment insurance/tax companies pay that will float employees terminated without cause for a little time, depending on the state. But it’s not high.

Large companies tend to give decent exit packages though.

Depends entirely on you local labour laws and the contract you have signed with the company.

If your local labour laws require compensation in cases of Constructive Dismissal, then you are entitled to some kind of severance package.

If not, then it's possible your employment contract will have a clause for "in case of constructive dismissal we will pay X weeks based on employment length" or something. Maybe not likely, but certainly possible.

In the US it’s called constructive discharge. Good luck convincing a judge that asking a $400k/yr employee to show up to the office is so unreasonable that you were forced to quit.

They fire you, with a very valid reason of not being in the office, which from a legal perspective is very hard to argue against on the employee side.

Is it very valid if they hired you as a remote employee to start with?

At least in Washington state, that's a maybe.

RCW 50.20.050 (https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=50.20.050) says you can even quit and get unemployment if among several other items:

> (vii) The claimant's worksite changed, such change caused a material increase in distance or difficulty of travel, and, after the change, the commute was greater than is customary for workers in the claimant's job classification and labor market;

> The real reason for RTO is of course tax benefits that Amazon gets from local/state governments only if there are buts in seats in the office buildings (since people coming into the office means they are in the area which means that they spend money in local restaurants/shops, e.t.c)

Are these tax breaks enumerated and tracked somewhere? What departments would be appropriate to receive FOIA requests on the matter?

Honestly a lot of these tax breaks are for local taxes so other than the county/city they are in, other than the local paper and the county courthouse I'm not sure if they have to be anywhere else.

I will have a database built. Thank you!

I understand the source of your name, I think.

Yep!

The information may also show up in tax expenditure reports. And/or in legislation.

Why is it so unbelievable that execs simply believe RTO is beneficial for their business?

https://archive.is/nyGOK

Can you share some examples of tax benefits they got? I'm imagining that the cost of keeping a office open far exceeds the tax benefits they would receive in return, and I doubt that local governments really track the frequency of how often workers are going into the office. Probably, having people attend the office "on paper" but with a low mandated frequency like 1 day a week would be enough to legally satisfy whichever agreements they made.

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