What's lost when we photograph life instead of experiencing it? (2016) | Hacker News Reader

What's lost when we photograph life instead of experiencing it? (2016)

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37 pointsrzk69 comments

When I was a teenager, I had this silly idea. I didn't really bother taking photos because I thought it was better to just see things myself instead of through a camera. I told myself, "I'd rather see it in real life than through a camera lens". I figured since my friends were always taking pictures, I could just get copies from them later on.

Turns out, that 'later' never really happened. Friends moved on, and now, I barely have any photos from back then, and my kids love looking at the old photos I do have. Capture everything, especially as it couldn't be easier now.

There's a balance.

I went to a firework display last month and two teenagers in front of us stood side by side, both videoing the fireworks. Not just holding their phones up, they watched the entire display on their phone screen. Surely that's missing out on something?

When you realize taking photos of things that repeat or are static (like building and fireworks) doesn't make sense. Taking photos of family and friends and having people in context is what's important. Sure, if you're in a new place and want to capture some scenery, that's fine, but for example I have a bunch of photos from years ago without people in them that are basically meaningless now.

This happens are concerts. It's endemic and has spolit the event, globally. Recently I saw a film director talk and all phones were locked away. Everyone in the room (2000 people) got to hear, and see, what they'd come for. I wish more events would do this. I really do.

I saw Phoenix a few weeks ago outside the US. The lead singer tried to crowd surf, but the crowd around/under him were so focused on photographing the moment that he wasn't able to stay up.

All this does is split the fanbase, because for every person who likes phone-free events, there are others who feel that phones are an essential part of life and phone bans are a boomer relic. But for musical scenes like classical music or jazz that are small and fragile and can’t afford to split their audience, this is a real problem.

That's not my experience. I tend to see more younger people engaging in the moment and older people tethered to their phone.

Yeah, that is crazy.. Couldn't agree with you more.

firework displays are definitely something better appreciated in person. Music gigs are probably another.

Looking from the other side, I was taking lots and lots of pictures for several years. Pretty much a go-to group-of-friends photographer.

I did my best to take pictures. So in many cases I was focused on taking pictures rather than participating. Pictures are nice and I know other people love having them. Which is nice. But sometimes I feel I missed out on some stuff being behind the lense.

Same for me and as I transitioned to being a father this really got me thinking. I want my son to have photos of his childhood but I also want to participate in it so the pendulum swings back and forth, it’s difficult to find the balance :D

My solution is to take a picture a week or so. Enough non-repetitive content. Yet not too much behind-the-lense stuff. Not gone lie, nagging is there.

Agreed. I have “lost years” from my twenties… not really lost of course but I looked so derisively upon the idiots with their selfie sticks, as I wandered around with my DSLR taking interestingly angled shots with absolutely no one I knew in them. It’s a fun hobby but in hindsight I think I had my priorities backwards. Every now and then I stumble across a photo I’m actually in and I’m shocked by how young I am.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the author of this piece was a college student at the time. I wonder if their perspective will change revisiting this article a decade or so later.

(as a parent I feel it a hundred times over. I want to be entirely present but already feel extreme nostalgia for the days my kids were younger and love to watch old videos. It’s a constant balancing act.)

I always felt uncomfortable both having photos taken as well as taking them, and as a result I also have very few photos to look back on.

My memory also kinda sucks. As I got really into Instagram, I became one of those annoying folks that was sticking the phone out everywhere to get a picture. I particularly liked snapping shots during music events. I convinced myself that this will help me remember what I’ve done and give me something to fondly look back on.

Flashing forward, neither of those things really came true. I rarely looked back at the photos (most of them were too poor of quality to be particularly useful), I was rarely in them, and it didn’t help memory much. Instead, I was mostly just seeking feedback and attention from social media peers, the event I thought I was commemorating was just grist for the mill. I found myself being more interested in collecting evidence of living my life to post than actually enjoying it.

I got rid of almost all social media a couple of years ago. I don’t miss it whatsoever. More to the point, I’ve become more aware of how disruptive this phenomenon is. For me, writing things down in a journal was way more effective for my memory and capturing context. I take less photos, keeping the phone put away until the end when I ask people for a quick group photo or two, but now the quality has gone up, I’m actually in them, and I’m not interrupting people by constantly sticking my phone in their face. Quality over quantity, IMO.

In my late teens, I accidentally formatted the wrong harddrive and erased hundreds of photos. Most of those photos were rubbish, blurry, and of things weren't important, or if they were, they aren't any more.

But amongst that hoard was some pictures of valuable memories, or places and people that no longer exist. I realised that I didn't have a single picture of my cat who passed away shortly after I lost all the pictures.

Now I don't take that many photos, and I don't let the activity of taking photos get in the way of any experience, but even the blurry crappy photos I make sure are thoroughly synced and then backed up.

Yea, taking a few photos really doesn’t take very long. ‘Loosing’ 3-5 minutes of a 3 day ski trip really isn’t much of a sacrifice.

Video is tricky. I find simply aiming in the right general direction without looking in the viewfinder means you get crappy video and can still stay in the moment. Then when watching it you kick of the actual memory even if the video isn’t that good.

It seems like there should be a balance between photograph nothing and capture everything. What I have been trying to do is: snap a few photos, then enjoy the rest of my time. If anything else noteworthy happens, I write a note about it using my note taking system (org-roam).

Nowadays I mostly piggy-back on someone else more enthusiastic than me who would take the picture. And sometimes I'm the enthusiastic one.

There are better memories to be had if you have someone to share with.

Yeah I think the optimal process is to take a quick photo and then put the camera away. Record the memory, then get back to living it.

I’ve also generally found that even bad photos are good enough for triggering memories, and so the important thing is to take a photo, any photo, and not obsess over the details. (At least for photos you’re primarily taking for personal reasons.)

Comments so far seem split 50/50 for and against taking of photos. I'll try to tip the scales towards "for": Just don't over do it! Get a phone that has a good camera, then use it to take 10-15 photos per day while traveling and 0-5 on a normal day. It's with you all the time anyway. If you're hauling your DSLR and tripod around you're missing the moment; if you take no photos your future self is missing the moment. And the best part is that looking at life with a slight lean towards "is this moment/scene/location special enough to capture" actually forces you to pay attention. I have more than a few nice pictures of every person I've even cared for and every amazing adventure I've ever been on. Hard to see that as a bad thing. Also, FYI, grew up in 70s/80s so have at most 20 pictures of my life between the ages of 0 and 20...that sucks.

I recently picked up a compact point and shoot (Sony ZV-1) as a secondary camera to my DSLR. It is pocketable, which makes it easy easier to carry around than my DSLR, and it is a higher quality camera than my phone (which is not the best anymore (S10) but is still quite good compared to more recent phones), with the added bonus of not being a tempting gateway to the Internet.

I got it because as someone currently in my mid 20s, I have never experienced being an adult without carrying a smart phone everywhere, and I want to experience that. I also don't want to lose the ability to take photos, nor do I want to lug my DSLR everywhere. So while the form factor makes it seem like a relic of 20 years ago, a point and shoot has been a great tool to add to my photography toolbelt.

I can understand the point of the article but I disagree that it is taking away from the experience it is documenting. Counterpoint: Life Logging. I remember reading a phenomenal book by @CStross called 'Rule 34' in which a policewoman essentially records everything she sees and hears, a sort of life logging. I found this to be fascinating and had hoped that it would be something I could use in the future. Record everything and not pay attention to it. Alas, it has not exactly worked out as I had hoped. Google Glass could have been that option but the reaction of many to being recorded was very, very negative.

Yet still others are trying with discreet cameras or an audio recorder, documenting life while still living life. Maybe in the future of Mr. Stross we will all have life logging.

Edit: Here is a more Work Safe link of the book series via Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_State

Careful searching for that book, especially if you're at work... There's a bit of an unfortunate coincidence with the title.

> but the reaction of many to being recorded was very, very negative.

Rightly so.

The lives of others aren't just data for us to unilaterally collect, to the contrary of the "beg forgiveness" big data collection philosophy of the last few decades.

I'm not sure how this is a counterpoint? "Record everything and not pay attention to it" sounds like you're not experiencing life.

Ah you perhaps misunderstood me. Record everything, do not pay attention to the fact that it is recording, and experience life in the process. Put the camera down but let it continue to record.

Yes I misunderstood, thanks for the clarification.

It's interesting to know what psychological effects that would have. For example there's some evidence that the ease of internet searches affects our memory retrieval because we know we can just look it up later. The same might be true here: faced with a choice between the slow outside world and social media, the brain thinks "well I can always look at the recording of the outside world later, but this drama is happening right now".

Looking back on photos, what I found to be precious were photos of people. Photos of things (food, scenery, wild animals) have very little sentimental value looking back.

Take pictures of people, not things.

To each their own I guess. I really strongly value all my photos of all sorts of random stuff, as long as it brings back a memory of something I did or experienced.

I'm very slowly coming around to this realization myself. I dont post but take a lot of pictures when I travel.

Now there are some landscape photos I have taken and love and frame. But the pictures I cherish the most are the blurry, silly pictures of my friends and I.

I don't know how to balance it.

Take them in the moment, don't make everyone pose every 5 min.

Tell them “that’s it, thank you” and then take the picture in the split second when they loosen up :)

I completely agree. This was my realization as well.

I deeply regret not photographing more when I was young, and I appear to have lost a lot of the few things I did photograph - very possibly because I was on extreme budgets and my first camera wasn't great, and my second had a fatal flaw that I never really fixed after 10 years of owning it (it was a Canon T70 that didn't always engage the aperture mechanism)

Taking the title completely literally, I still find with modern AI and expensive phone cameras that it's still difficult to accurately capture colour as we experience it.

I tried to share a picture of some fabric samples get an opinion from someone. From the display, most of the samples looked correct except one - a deep turqoise that the camera would refuse to capture no matter what exposure or white balance I chose.

I remember browsing through a pantone book (I think) and how all the colours would react to the tiniest change to ambient light, something you'd need a spectrometer to properly capture. Displays and cameras have been getting higher and higher resolutions, but the fedility in which we can capture and display colour doesn't seem to have improved in the last 10 years.

I agree with most of the commenters here. I’ll share my anecdote.

Years ago I travelled to Florida to watch the final shuttle launch. I had a little hand held video camera and planned on catching the entire thing on video. I was thinking it would be something I’d watch forever.

the launch starts and I’ve got the shot framed perfectly. A few seconds later I look up front the viewfinder and was completely overwhelmed by what I saw.

I promptly put the camera down and let the magnitude of the launch wash over me.

I’ve taken two major lessons from this experience.

First, shuttle launches were amazing feats of human engineering and the power of a launch was breathtaking.

Second, live in the moment, then capture memories when convenient but don’t let that interfere with the experience.

The final shuttle launch seems like the perfect example of what to not film. It's surely captured by professional broadcasters, available for free forever, with every amateur filming kind-of unnecessary.

Expect of course if you enjoy the process and want to say: “I filmed that”.

For a shuttle launch, a picture of you and the shuttle would be cool.

My take is: take photos, but take less of them.

One blurry photo of Christmas as an eight-year old prompts me to relive the experience and to browse through my memories and associated feelings. It's like a window through time.

On the other hand, several hundred images taken during a vacation have the opposite effect, almost like they dull the experience. Been there, done that, seen all the photos!

Exactly. Take a few seconds to take a single shot or two to capture the moment then move on and continue to be present for the experience.

It's also fun to explore alternative methods of recording your experiences, writing them down in a journal, doodling, etc.

>When we share photographs, we hope others will validate the facets of our identities that we embedded in those images. Knowing others can see the picture gives it more emotional power. Feedback from others makes it feel more real.

Another log on the "psychology is just astrology for people who think they're scientists" bonfire.

When I share photographs I share them so that my 93-year old grandmother who lives 760 miles away can see what I'm up to. We then discuss those photographs on our Sunday phone call.

When my daughters share photographs they share them so I can see what they're up to. I live between 550 and 1100 miles away from them and genuinely want to see their kids and dogs and mountaineering adventures, so that we can talk about them during our weekly phone calls.

I don't need to validate any facet of my identity to my loved ones nor do they need to validate anything to me.

Perhaps the person who wrote that is extremely insecure about their life or their place in the world?

I think this is a bad faith reading of the quote. Sure the author could have been more precise, but I think most fair readings would admit that the article is making a specific claim about the broad swath of photos distributed over channels like instagram as a participatory act in the medium, posted for many to consume, not e.g. family photos that are shared with specific people. The rest of the article pretty clearly establishes this framing.

I was about to go to a psychologist in the next few weeks because I can't function socially anymore and I'm depressed, but your comment made me rethink my choice. Maybe I just have to live with my problems if psychology is just astrology and I can't get help even from them. Now I feel worse but thanks for stopping me from doing something that probably would be useless...

If you feel as you say you do I wholeheartedly recommend you seek out a consultation with a psychiatrist, a licensed medical doctor who practices evidence-based medicine.

It is better to rule out any underlying medical issues first before wasting time doing six months of poorly-reproduced CBT handouts to no effect.

Apparently the iPhone automatically generates a photomontage of the past year. (It might be called "Memories".) So someone like me gets: some close-ups of body parts that were sent to a doctor; some photos of miscellaneous items that were offered for sale, including hutch of pet which died; some pictures of the damaged car after some moron smashed into it, required for insurance/legal claim. With the soundtrack, it's very uplifting.

Whenever I'm visiting a new place I usually take videos for my Instagram stories. The "optimization" I made a few years back is I would just open my native camera and take a video rather than messing with IG and then post to the platform later whenever I was at the airport or hotel. These are all 5-10 second videos that usually just pan across whatever i'm exploring, quick and the phone goes back in my pocket to continue experiencing whatever it is that I'm experiencing.

Since then I've made another "optimization" known as "meeting my s.o". She loves taking photos of places, food, us, etc and I just let her do all the photo taking (or at least command the process, she will often ask me to take a photo as well). She loves taking the photos and I love it because it takes off any pressure from me taking photos (or at least figuring out what to take, I still get asked at least a dozen times on a trip to whip out my phone and take a picture). Still I consider this a great improvement because I can just go in and enjoy a place without always having to think "what would be a good photo/video"

A s.o. loving to take photos can be a source of tension. I travel most of the year and take lots of photos. Sometimes for my own personal memories, sometimes for travel-blogging purposes. For the latter, I wanted my photos to be informative about the destination, and they shouldn’t really have been about me specifically. My s.o. for a period, on the other hand, was clearly taking photos for vanity and social-media prestige-winning reasons: nearly every shot had to have the s.o. in a glamorous pose in a glamorous setting, and I could get blamed for any result turning out less than glamorous.

Social media, where you are too busy showing everyone online how great a time you are having to actually have a good time. With many people on social media for fear of missing out, it can easily become a psychic parasite of sorts.

Photos can be good to help you get back into a memory, but some things can't be captured like that. Small example from this weekend -- when I started going to Mass at my church, my son was small enough I could hold him the entire time so he could see what was going on. Now, he's too big for me to hold him for more than a minute or so. A photo of me holding my son during Mass might help remind me of that experience, but it doesn't capture the bittersweet joy of me realizing how quickly he's growing or any of the other feelings I have from being at Mass.

I guess the balance would be documenting things enough so you have some "breadcrumbs" to tie back into your own experiences, but not to stress about making sure you document EVERYTHING because if you are too worried about having a record of the experience for some reason, the experience isn't sinking in and changing you like it could or should.

Very interesting as a historical artefact - file that under “ideas that aged poorly”. Yes, some people over-do it (like the inanity of watching your phone screen while filming ten minutes of shaky fireworks footage from a long way away that you’re never going to watch again, as others have mentioned), but I definitely cherish my photo albums of random pictures and videos I’ve taken around the place, with at least 99.5% of it having not been shared on social media, but plenty shown to people I know or messaged to friends if I knew something would interest them.

Sometimes I remember something I’ve seen, flick back to find a picture of it, and other photos I’ve taken on the same trip or whatever bring memories flooding back of things I’d totally forgotten I’d experienced. I love it!

My photography took off when I got my first real digital camera, a Kodak DC-210. It waned when my child and spouse decided, about 12 years ago, they didn't want ANY photos of themselves shared at warot.com

I'm really starting to regret the years of photos I haven't taken since. Eventually, after I age out, nobody will regret it, apparently.

Here's what it used to look like.... it was a site that pretty much only got visitors I sent there, but even the possibility that someone else might see things was unacceptable.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081209083840/http://warot.com:...

If you're only taking photos to share them with random internet strangers then you're likely not taking photos for the correct reasons and I can understand the hesitation.

It looks like that domain is their last name. As someone with a similar domain, that has a lot more value as something that can be easily shared with family, rather than something accessible to strangers.

I don't think its about photography per se.

Personally I don't really understand this need to share and tell the world everything on whatever platform. In similar vain, I find the humble bragging on LinkedIn bizarre at best. But every generation frowns upon the behavioral antics of the younger one, so maybe im just over 30.

To each their own. Don't like selfies? Don't take selfies.

Disclaimer, im a (street) photographer, but that is obviously totally completely different.

The worst situation is trying to live the moment and seeing everyone else on their phone.

The opposite, capturing for as long as you want, having exclusive materiel while everyone else builds the atmosphere seems to be the best case scenario. When you're ready to dive in - if ever - you can do so.

Looks like a prisoner's dilemma / tragedy of the commons to me. Imagine someone filming and all you see on the reel is everyone else filming too. Oof.

My position on what is lost - is nothing...

In fact you are still fully experiencing life, when taking photos - you seek out beauty or interest.

And when you look at old photos - still fully experiencing life as you reminiscence.

I do think it is worth taking the time to pay proper attention to those things that need your attention, when they need your attention. I mean - don't photo someone at the expense of giving someone emergency care!

But its all good!

I think this is a symptom of existing too much in the virtual world rather than the physical world. When we spend so much time in that world consuming content, there's a natural tendency to want to be part of it, to want to contribute to that world. The easiest way to create content is to take photographs.

This is article is way too old to be relevant right now. Back in 2016, Instagram and snapchat were just developing. And honestly I'd like to see a comparison between this study and a more recent one to see if the results actually match.

The ultimate example of this is solar eclipses. If you are fortunate to experience one in person, don't distract yourself with camera equipment or trying to take pics with your phone - unless you already make a living doing that.

Just. Experience. It.

"Instead of" seems to frame this as a false dichotomy. Enjoy most of the moments, capture a few to warm future moments. It's another example of 'everything in moderation.'

That's why I never take travel photos ;)

Hard disagree, however, when taking pictures on vacation or when sightseeing I always try to include somebody from the group (be it friends, family, etc) in the pictures.

20 years in the future I don't know if I'll care to look at pictures of buildings from <Random City>, but if see my younger kids in the foreground it will be worth it.

I think nicely framed photos of buildings from <Random City> helps complete the experience. It’s also not just that one building, but also the photos before and after that complete the exhibition.

It’s why we like albums and curated art exhibitions too, I believe.

As much as I care for people close to me, I also care about the world we live in, and this is where photos of the inanimate things that make up <Random City> where I went comes in.

I don’t think I have a photo where I’d go “and this is a building I photographed for no particular reason at all”.

what's lost? training data

Smell.

I have not read the article yet but it has reminded me that I am continually underwhelmed when I try to capture a scene with my camera. The essence of the scene never seems to get conveyed accurately - everything seems 'flat'. Clouds, certain sunsets, and water with waves on it are continual sources of disappointment. Everything seems smaller, flatter; less, I don't know, magnificent? The photos seem to have less 'depth', maybe it is something to do with sensitivity to subtle variations in light.

I am no professional, just some guy with his iPhone. But what comes out of that iPhone, doesn't really seem to compare with what goes into it.

It does depend on experience doing that and skill-level, thats for sure, but I have fantastic photos of the time since my oldest daughter was born until now, and i wouldn't miss it for the world.

Yeah, people certainly. I wouldn't trade my pictures of my kid for anything. I was thinking more as 'photography as an experience log' being sort of underwhelming. I probably bring more emotion to it when I see pictures of my kid, no matter how indifferently photographed, and that fills in what my lack of skill doesn't when I photograph nature.

Not an expert in photography but I think phone cameras are more optimized for portraits than for long-distance landscape photography. You probably need specialized equipment for that not to be underwhelming.

It's easier when you are e.g. inside a forest and take a photo, those can be really good if the light is right and the phone is decent, but panoramic photos from afar, not so much.

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