Hacker News Reader

Comment by Kapura | Hacker News Reader

If you want to really own something, buy physical media. Simple as.

I just pirate.

I'll stop when my rights are respected, promise.

I’ve heard many “pirates” say similar things, and when their condition is met, they find a new demand. Why would an IP rights-holder believe you?

Why not just buy physical media where available, and abstain where an acceptable legal option is not provided?

You misunderstand, I'm not trying to convince rights holders. I hope they go out of business, and I hope my piracy is what does it. It's just that, knowing myself, I know I wouldn't bother with the hassle of pirating if there were a better alternative, like I stopped pirating games and just buy them on Steam now.

I've recently started pirating again specifically because everything has been pulled off of netflix.

I'm not going to be nickle & dime'd. You were getting paid for my consumption and now you're not.

Well said. Users pirating content vs the largest companies on earth fucking users in every way they can possibly get away with is a great example of "one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic".

They don't just fuck users, they fuck their employees as well. How many writers' strikes have there been now? How much of an open secret was Weinstein raping and abusing actresses?

I hope the whole system dies, and maybe something better will take its place. I'm sure I won't miss Guardians of the Galaxy XXIV.

Indeed, GotG is really going to peak around volume 16.

> I'm sure I won't miss Guardians of the Galaxy XXIV.

Is this because you thought GotG 1-3 were bad and they are just going to keep making more bad stuff, or because you thought GotG 1-3 were good but have pretty much wrapped up the story of those characters so it is now time to stop, or something else?

(not who you're asking, but I saw this negative and thought it deserves an answer)

It's a much wider criticism. Not a specific series... or even media.

There are perverse incentives between producer, actor, and consumer in entertainment and so many other things.

In this light, I'd argue piracy is moral by not providing support to a corrupt system. Or at least serves as a means to prevent such a state

Neither, Hollywood has been playing it so safe that they don't dare produce anything original any more, and it has become much more boring as a whole lately.

Gabe Newell himself said "piracy is a service problem," and it really shows because buying on Steam is 10x more convenient as a Linux user than pirating the game.

Especially with Linux gaming, I think Valve has made it more convenient to just buy games.

Steam is a godsend for Linux. I no longer have to even check where a game plays, I know that a Steam game will play on Linux. Nowadays I buy games mostly as thanks to Valve's Linux efforts, as I don't really tend to game much.

It's still not every game, checking protondb before buying is good advice.

That's true, that's oversimplification on my part. I tend to like older, non-AAA games, and I haven't had a single one of those fail so far.

When it's harder to legally pay for media than it is to pirate, it's your own fault when people pirate.

> Why would an IP rights-holder believe you?

Because in addition to all the filthy pirated booty I stole, I would also show them this:

    * My 350+ physical CD collection
    * My 200+ physical DVD/Blu-Ray
    * My entire merch collection for Nine Inch Nails (>$1000)
    * My entire merch collection for Rings of Saturn (>$1000)
    * My merch collection from many, many, many other bands
    * Pages of receipts from Bandcamp and other e-media distributors
    * Pages of receipts from direct payments to artists themselves
    * The mass of ticket stubs I've acquired from live shows
    * The mass of movie ticket stubs I've acquired from theaters

I'm never paying for entertainment again. I paid my dues and the industry has done nothing but fuck me and everyone else.

Fuck them. It's over.

Have fun paying to sing "Happy Birthday".

Fortunately at least “Happy Birthday” is in the public domain as of 2016.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to refuse to do business with the media companies who are, indeed, evil and dishonest in how they do business. By all means, never give them another dime.

But you also don't have the right to decide "but I still want to consume the content that comes out in the future" and take it without paying. Doing that is no better, morally, than this shit which Sony is pulling. It's taking something which doesn't belong to you. If one does that, then their ideals are hollow and they really were just rationalizing their own selfish behavior. I'm not accusing you specifically of that, but it is depressingly common.

This is The Way.

Why can't you do both? I own several DVD sets of TV shows I like because I want to support what little physical media is being released these days. I don't subscribe to any streaming service whatsoever, so I can use that money to only support what I want.

Physical media (one that is left) is encrypted with remotely revokable licenses as well, so not sure what are you implying here.

It's not, WTH are you on about. My old Blu-Rays, will still play in my old Blu-Ray player 50 years from now. Those keys are burned in the DVD and in the player's chip and can't be remotely revoked because they run on physics, not magic.

Technically speaking, even bluray degrade over time so those key might get unreadable, not sure of the average lifespan since there is conflicting info on it but it seems to be around 100 year (ideal condition).

That's assuming you only ever run old Blu-Rays on that player.

Blu-Ray has a thing called BD+ on it, which lets content companies run arbitrary native code on your player (among other things). It also lets you update your player's key revocation list for HDCP. So either of these mechanisms could be used to render your old purchased content unplayable.

That's fun... if you connect your DVD player to the internet.

No, they can ship updates on new disks and the player will read the code when it reads the movie.

So, pop in a new disc, and it comes with a new list of all the content that is not allowed to be played anymore? Ergo your old discs stop working because your player now knows the license expired or something stupid like that?

That's literally evil.

Yep, it was even part of CSS (the older DVD DRM), but there they could "just" prevent playback of a given disc on certain players.

AACS2 allows for carrying revocation lists on discs now.

Do you have any sources for this?

I did a work on DRM during my master degree. It's somewhat true, it's called Broadcast Encryption. They can stop your players ability to read new disks. They can't stop existing ones though, unless the disk requires online component or something.

DRM stands for Digital Rights Management, but I call it Digital Restrictions Management cause that's what it is from users point of view.

Interesting, thanks for sharing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD%2B

The one thing I'm not 100% certain on is if HDCP revocation list updates go through BD+ or if there's a separate mechanism for those updates. However, BD+ code gets to inspect your player software and modify it, which is sufficient capability to do updates, even if they don't use it for such.

I also don't know if they continue to release updated BD+ code or if they've given up on that.

Where are you going to find a working 50 year old Blu-Ray player 50 years from now?

I have continuously rediscovered that files in inaccessible formats become inaccessible after time, time and time again.

Er, I own working DVD readers, CD readers, and cassette players, and I don't personally own anything that can play 8-tracks or records but I know other people who do. Why would Blu-ray be the first exception?

I have no arguments about Blu-ray specifically, but with no open implementation I have general concern for the viability of the files. And relying on hardware working at all is a fickle proposition, even across the span of months or years.

You do have the ability to strip the DRM from the BR and burn or archive a copy of the content sans DRM. Of course you still have to contend with maintaining the longevity of the medium that the data is stored on but at least the content is free and in the clear for eternity.

Did they crack AACS 2 yet? A couple of years ago it was still a problem to backup UHD BRs.

I've been able to rip 4K UHD but only using specific models of drive. (some LG drives). Would really like to use Pioneer as they are more reliable but they are not cracked yet(as far as I know).

AACS2 is the DRM scheme on BluRays (usually used on newer UHD ones) and has the ability to remotely revoke ability of decoding for players. That can either be done with payload on other discs or via internet connection if the player has it.

They already did that for PC playback for example, revoking keys for several players.

If you keep giving Sony money (including for physical media) they will keep doing things like this.

Even physical media has DRM.

Stop giving companies money when they abuse you. It’s a vote for more abuse.

nope. get content at a local library and burn a backup copy, in case the library burns down or something. You're doing them a favor.

Also many libraries get more funding if they get more patronage.

That’s not necessary. You can own DRM free digital media. Music you buy from Apple iTunes has been DRM free since 2009.

gog.com for games gets you DRM free versions

Sometimes

Luckily, it is clearly marked on the GOG store pages which games are and aren't DRM free.

which is rich for a company that prides itself for DRM-free stuff. There should be ZERO exceptions.

That won’t make sense forever. Already barely does. Giving people access to their stuff without DRM is the way.

Or don't purchase things in DRMd walled gardens.

Even better stop supporting / participating in DRMd walled gardens.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com