Faster quarter mile drag speed than a Porsche 911 _while also towing a 911_
That's incredible marketing.
That's incredible marketing.
The super coupes of one’s youth are utterly obliterated on the dragstrip, not by EV coupes, but by family SUVs and pickup trucks.
That said, just because they can go fast in a straight line doesn’t make them in any way equivalent to a 911. Give me a mountain pass or a racetrack, (and no kids or stuff to carry) and I’ll take the 911 every single time.
It’ll be death by a thousand cuts. New ICE vehicles will be increasingly rare in showrooms. There will be bans in city centres. Gas stations will start to disappear. Those that remain will be required to sell blends with increasing amounts of non-fossil derived gasoline, which will be considerably more expensive than current prices, and far more expensive to run.
Eventually, driving ICE vehicles will be like horse riding today - a niche, expensive, smelly hobby that is conducted well outside city limits.
But a Cybertruck is always going to look like it wandered out of StuntRaceFX.
It's an unfortunate trend with EVs too (thanks in large part to Tesla IMO). You can get a ton of acceleration with big electric motors and batteries, but the car will otherwise drive like ass because it's so heavy and so little attention has been paid to anything besides speed.
Most BEVs also have low center of gravity and even mass distribution, so they’re not as bad as a heavy ICE car.
On public roads, 0-30mph acceleration is probably most fun you can have within realm of legal and sensible driving. Handling is not an issue at speed limits of public roads.
This was extremely misleading breakdown, because it discounted all of the ICE gases that are toxic, but weigh almost nothing, and lighter combustion particles that stay in the air, versus tire particles that are typically heavier and stay on the ground.
Of course worn tires aren't environmentally neutral, but that framing was used as a regressive "gotcha" in EVs vs ICE, without daring to mention any real solutions like reversing heavy macho-pickup-truck and SUV fashion created by a workaround for emissions regulation, or moving freight from trucks to rail.
I said it was low-hanging fruit because it's my understanding that it is: since EVs (again, correct me if I'm wrong) generate more tire rubber particles because of their comparatively high torque output, it's literally a software fix (limiting torque) to cut those emissions to ICE levels or, potentially, even lower. The only reason not to do it is that many people view their personal vehicles as large, expensive toys, and they will be less fun toys if their acceleration performance is curtailed.
I don't see this as a "gotcha" for EV technology, because it has such a trivial solution, and it was not my intent to suggest that ICE cars are less (or more, for that matter) damaging to the environment. I'm honestly not sure why you would read my comment that way.
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As for the harm done by microplastics like tire rubber particles, it's my understanding that they don't simply stay on the ground, but rather that drainage carries them into the ground, waterways, and ultimately oceans, where they remain intact for some indefinite period and cause largely unquantified disruptions to local organisms and ecologies. It's not obvious to me that they won't ultimately be more of a problem than airborne pollutants, since they may be much more persistent and difficult to remove.
After the EV transition is complete, though, that'd be a good time to start limiting torque. Unless most people are just riding self-driving taxis by then, which probably won't be doing fast acceleration anyway.
I don't really think either of these arguments is obviously correct, so I lean toward the option that immediately limits harm. But I'm also under no illusion that anything other than short to medium term profits are driving automakers' decisions, so in practice we will surely get the worst of both worlds.
Seriously, I haven't been hit in the head.
The AMG was fun for a total of 4 seconds, which is exactly how long it took you to get to the legal speed limit, then you just sort of pootled along, unable to push hard and enjoy it. Yes it had grip, yes it had the noise, but I'd say out of the 4 years I owned it, I had "fun" in maybe a total 5% of those 4 years.
In the e-Up? I can push it hard all the time. You can get on some countryside roads, keep the pedal flat, and chuck it around, and it takes ages to get to any kinds of illegal speeds. And it's electric so the torque is always there, there's no waiting for the dual clutch gearbox to finally decide what it wants to do, you press the throttle and you go, it's absolutely beautiful how you can thread this car out of a corner. My enjoyment of hard driving this car is probably 10x that of the AMG, partially because you can actually do it for longer, and partially because I'm far less likely to kill myself or land in jail doing so. And it's only 1200kg so it's not like an oil tanker in turns, despite having wheels from a lawnmower.
> The result is terrifying. Both terrifying to drive, and terrifying to realize that these things are out on the road, in the hands of a public I don't trust enough to handle this sort of power. Up on Angeles Crest, the Plaid is incredibly quick, but it doesn't have the chassis, steering, or brakes to deal with the horsepower. Especially irritating is the damping, which is never settled in the Plaid's multiple drive modes. And that yoke steering wheel is just so incredibly stupid.
It is scary. Consumer automobile trends are chasing more and bigger in every dimension and our regulators are either asleep at the wheel or on the payroll. Pedestrian deaths are trending up, we have hard data showing that pickup trucks are 2.5x more likely to kill the occupants of other vehicles in a crash, and there is no sign that anyone gives a single flying fuck about any of these lives that have been needlessly snuffed out—a pile of corpses as a monument to the pigheaded vanity of adult children. It is fucking disgusting.
Presumably you suggest we also banish unhealthy food, cigarettes, weed, and alcohol, right? They are all responsible for significant deaths (especially when combined with any kind of driving) and are only for fun
In short, yours is not a good analogy because the danger posed by the use of harmful addictive substances is to the self, while the danger posed by driving an F-450 XLT Cummings Power Stroke 8.0 Liter Ranch King Harley Davidson Edition is to others.
You didn’t read what I wrote. I specifically called out being under the influence. A drunk behind the wheel of the Corolla is far more dangerous to pedestrians than a teetotaling truck driver. Similar to anyone at a high risk of heart attack or stroke that gets behind the wheel.
It's a world built for cars, and we're only barely clawing it back.
I hate getting one of these as a rental instead of a van.
That's likely one of the reasons for Tesla's success - EVs sell EVs, and Teslas sell Teslas. Tesla can skimp on marketing, the customers do it for them by showing the cars off and the cars sell themselves.
I guarantee no Porsche 911 on the planet keep up with an F1 car like that can.
Personally, while it's not an EV, I'd take one of these at less than one-tenth the price:
[1] https://www.hyperracer.com/x1racer
Also makes mincemeat of Porsche 911s on most circuits, particularly the ones amateurs actually get the chance to drive at regularly.
And the best part: you will still enjoy it even when you are going slow or sitting idle because both cars SOUND amazing.
Maybe I’m a purist but as a 41 year old adult I still sprint off my couch to look out the window every time I hear an interesting car pass by my house.
While I’ll never own one, there is still something about the sound of a Mustang V8 going past.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-turbo-turbo-s
I don't know what's going on with that video. If we take Tesla's numbers at face value, which I definitely don't given their history, the 911 Turbo S is dramatically faster on the straights. Is Tesla claiming that the Cybertruck gets faster with a 911 in tow? If so, why isn't there an option for a 911 trailer?
Methinks Tesla is up to their old tricks!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-autopilot-staged-engineer...
Also not discounting tesla shenanigans. Would be easy enough to run the 1/4 a few times and get the 911 nice heat soaked and way down on power.
I couldn't tell what model it was, as Twitter video has been broken for me for months.
The shenanigans was simply in choosing that car at all. A base 911 only claims a 0-60 of 4s and doesn't even break 400hp. It's never been a straight line car, that's not what it's trying to do or why enthusiasts love it.
https://extramile.thehartford.com/auto/maintenance/how-to-br...
Also definitely looks like the car dips briefly meaning it’s likely a manual, and the Carerra T only comes in manual.
Porsche rated 4.3s 0-60mph.
Let’s see Tesla brag about Nurburgring times!
and they BUY a truck that can accelerate (almost) like a porsche.
note truck cannot accelerate like a plaid :)
People buy the hyper inflated metric that sounds good, even if it’s not actually what they want?
A huge one of this is (or was?) megapixels in cameras. When actually, sensor size & quality, and glass quality matters a ton.
They do, or try to. But then there's this awkward moment when you ask about lap 2 or 3 where the Porsche or Audi or whatever is still blazing around the track while your Plaid is pulled over in Thermal Shutdown mode.
It feels much more safe when merging, overtaking, etc, compared to my previous (rather weak and old) car. And I do my best to not drive as a jackass.
The base 911 is not intended to be fast in a straight line. It's actually about as fast as a Model 3 Dual Motor Long range. Base 911 is about experience, feel, and handling.
I say this because the mid-range 911 Turbo S would blow the doors off an unladen Cybertruck Tri-motor with it's 2.2s 0-60.
The Tesla Cybertruck might be the best example of this phenomenon. At 7000 lbs and a high ground clearance, there is no amount of power that can make this car feel nimble.
Why do you believe that? (I assume you have not test driven it.) From the videos it seems to feel very nimble.
In terms of pure drag racing the Cybertruck is a loser. Top Fuel dragsters can do 0 to 60 in ~0.8 seconds and can do a quarter mile in less than 5 seconds. There's no comparison here.
But the Cybertruck has an insane amount of torque, 10x beyond the equivalent ICE vehicle. It can tow, that's for sure.
But I also don't think that 0 to 60 in 2.6s is 'a loser'. Cars that take twice as much feel already very fast to me.
I'm not saying the Cybertruck is shit. It's a torque monster and I want one. But it will struggle with cornering because of its 6800 pound kerb weight which is double the 911 kerb weight. Too heavy, can't compete.
What's most impressive to me is they figured out how to make flat body panels on the Cybertruck without warping (which would ruin the aesthetics). It would look cheap if they didn't get that right.
But the Cybertruck has 10x the torque of the equivalent ICE vehicle, so it can beat the 911 in a drag race, while towing a 911. Incredible. This is where it completely destroys ICE.
Furthermore, you can't drive it with a regular driver's license. Requires you to get a C1 license.
So it may have fast acceleration from 0-60mph, but that's as fast as it will ever go.
Being able to tow big heavy stuff isn't necessarily a great idea, because big heavy stuff needs to stop as well as start.
If you're used to accelerating hard and braking hard, your big heavy stuff is going to have real problems with that.
> Being able to tow big heavy stuff isn't necessarily a great idea, because big heavy stuff needs to stop as well as start.
is a solved problem in the caravanning | rural | Australian world.
Hayman-Reese hitches with anti sway bars provide strong transfer of pulling force for starting, load control under braking - and heavy load trailers can be dual axle with slaved electric brakes to add to the stopping power of the lead vehicle.
Reality is, no one needs a truck, but everyone buys a truck. And as long as people are buying trucks for vanity purposes, this pure vanity vehicle is going to be top of their pile.
In the same car only a week before in much better weather, I did a similar trip, twice.
Are you sure about that? Tyre friction force is at least to first approximation proportional to vehicle weight, and so is the force needed to turn at a particular radius and speed, so they balance independently of weight. I'd say weight doesn't necessarily make a difference to turning ability. CoM height yes, though.
More than about 10 years ago that was simply unheard of, and I'm certain people would have said it was impossible.
Useful or not, it's a very impressive thing to do. 99% of automakers would be happy if they could build a sports scar faster than a 911, let alone a pickup with 11,000lbs towing capacity.
Can you provide a list please? You are very much mistaken without getting into supercar territory.
You said "sports cars faster than a 911 are relatively common", so you should be able to pull together a big list easily.
https://www.zeroto60times.com/3-second-cars-0-60-mph-times/?... (scroll down)
Several are EVs, not true sports cars
Eh, it's not really interesting if you can't corner. Lots of trucks aren't actually bad at it, all you need is a ton of torque, tires that can take it, and enough weight and length to keep the front end down. Easy enough any automaker can do it if they choose, but 1/4 mile numbers are a mostly meaningless pissing contest unless you are actually building drag cars.
Now if Tesla built anything that handled up near Porsche territory, that would be interesting. I guess they sort of did with the 1st one, but that was Lotus's chassis.
Ahh, no.
The Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat with 707 horsepower runs a 11.4 [1]
That is the very definition of a car built to go fast in a straight line. Massive engine, supercharger, massive rear tires, and it's slower than the Cybertruck.
> Lots of trucks aren't actually bad at it
Please show me a truck that gets even remotely close to a sub 11 quarter mile. Heck, show me a production sports car (that isn't a super car as expensive as a house) that does.
[1] https://fastestlaps.com/models/dodge-charger-srt-hellcat
NB: I didn't say any of these would beat a big electric. Electric motors have real advantages here, nobody claims otherwise.
And yes point remains for any automaker trying to set up a car to compete with a 911. Getting a similar 1/4 mile time would be about the easiest part...
Going fast in a straight line is easy for electric motors, so it's just not that impressive. It's like a native speaker enrolling in language 101. The A doesn't really mean anything. EVs have been up against the limits of tire adhesion for years now.
EVs with impressive sustained track times are far more interesting since that's actually hard to achieve. Batteries are heavy and that's killer for a real race car.
That 911 will pound hot lap after hot lap until the fuel tank is empty like it's nothing if the owner ticked the ceramic brake option. I suspect the Cybertruck will run out of cooling long before it drains the battery and I guarantee it will cook the brakes hauling itself down from 130 mph.
Edit: plus F-150 Raptor R does a 12.1 quarter mile. That's pretty close to running 11s.
There is a very, very large difference between 12.1s and sub 11s.
Gobs of RWD power and seemingly a lack of any sort of dynamic active safety systems for inexperienced drivers to help with this kind of fishtailing or oversteer.
That’s 10% over the ceiling. That’s not close.
You can a Nissan GT-R for half the price which can do sub 11 seconds. A GT-R tuned for drag racing will be faster on a 1/4 than an F1 car.
Or you can get a bike for less than $20k which can do a 1/4 mile in 9.78 seconds. So just achieving that is not necessarily that hard.
Stock GT-R is 11.3. Slower than Cybertruck.
https://fastestlaps.com/models/nissan-gt-r
> Or you can get a bike for less than $20k which can do a 1/4 mile in 9.78 seconds
Comparing a vehicle (especially a pickup truck) to a bike shows you how absurdly fast that vehicle is.
You just keep coming up with examples that show it's very hard to make a production vehicle that does a sub 11 in the 1/4.
That's a 2008 model. The current (2017+) one with
> You just keep coming up with examples that show it's very hard to make a production vehicle that does a sub 11 in the 1/4.
You're assuming that maximizing acceleration in a straight is the main priority for most sportscar manufacturers and they are willing to throw everything else to maximize it.
> Comparing a vehicle (especially a pickup truck) to a bike shows you how absurdly fast that vehicle is.
Well a Moto GP bike will easily beat an F1 car in 1/4 mile drag race yet would have zero chances on an actual race track. I'd bet the Cybertruck would do relatively considerably worse even against the base config 911. So it really depends on how you define "absurdly fast".
And very clearly we've been talking about 1/4 mile time for this entire discussion.
Tesla showed a Cybertruck beating a 911 in the 1/4 while pulling a 911.
They didn't show it going around a track, they didn't show it outbraking a 911, they didn't show it on a hillclimb.
They very, very clearly defined exactly the context for "absurdly fast", and demonstrated it quite well.
Yes, the slowest 911 you can buy.
> And very clearly we've been talking about 1/4 mile time for this entire discussion.
I'm not even sure what are we arguing about at this point. My entire point is that this is a clearly an apples to oranges comparison.
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/08/32/5f/08325fd8b2a6e882b2a6e9ff8...
"Buy our product because it's better than X,Y,Z..."
Original full video seems to have been deleted but here's a Vimeo re-upload: https://vimeo.com/253258542 MotorTrend's Instragram promoting a short clip of it: https://www.instagram.com/p/BDHcw67Ixw1/
If it’s an ice car, different story.
Does that answer your question?
Still the best statement to describe Musk and his companies.
It has a 1/4 mile time (9.9 seconds) a full second faster than a Cybertruck (10.9 seconds).
Its sort of like saying some kid on the high school track team running all out is faster than Hussain Bolt when he's running a warmup lap.