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hotpotamus·
The bubble here is more of a concrete dome sometimes; I wonder how many people on this forum have ever worked a service job? I have and I literally fear what I would do if I had to go back to the jobs I had while in college (which could happen; I've never felt very secure in any job).
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I've never worked a service job in my life but I know several people who have - including my own children. OMFG!!! It's inhumane how these people are treated. I've seen office equipment treated better than these flesh-and-blood human beings. The only good thing is it gave my kids a good swift kick in the rear end to go to college, not screw around, and get serious with what they were doing. Despite that upside, I wouldn't wish that on anybody!
Crazy levels of projection here any time a non-white-collar job is mentioned as being passible.

My brother hated college more than life itself. He always looked forward to summers where he’d work service more consistently. Fast-forward, he’s dropped out and now works in food services full time, never been happier.

How's the dental care of your brother's children? When's he thinking he can retire and what will that look like? When was the last time he took a week off?

It's not the work itself that is bad but the conditions of it. I loved cooking, I much prefer it to computer work. But allowances for health and family have to be carved out case-by-case depending on your relationship to your bosses.

This isn't necessary and we could change it. But we haven't, and so these jobs suck for reasons that have nothing to do with the work being done.

Great! He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits. And he’s a good reliable worker (which in massive demand in the industry rn), so if he gives his boss enough notice he’ll allow pretty much anything wrt time off.
> He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits

Yeah, what we're talking about is not that. Union work is an entirely different beast. I'm talking about people not knowing from one day to the next what their schedule is going to be, informing their supervisor well in advance when they're available to work and still having work scheduled when they're not able to work and then being threatened to be fired if they don't show up. Complete shit show.

Sure, but bad jobs exist in any industry. My claim is that good ones exist in service, which is contrary to what the narrative taught in public schools would have you believe.
Because it's the exception and not the rule?
We’ve taught people to feel like scum if they’re working in food service and to treat people in food service like scum, then justify the indoctrination by saying it’s “usually true”.

Any cursory examination of other cultures would show it doesn’t have to be this way.

We all certainly agree on that! The fact is though that you will be treated like scum working in food service in a way you usually aren't working in, say, software development. I can confidently say this because I've done both jobs. It's not any more honest or realistic to deny this.
Yes agreed. Also when people did do these jobs it was often quite a while ago without noticing how much worse this work has been made in the last ten or fifteen years. Or they were only doing them briefly during a transition (like college) and haven't really considered the psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight.
> psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight

This is exactly the kind of prejudice I detest. Who are you to say that providing folks with good food and pleasant hospitality they want to keep coming back to and enjoying is somehow a psychologically draining career? But putting letters on screens that move boxes around and implement TCP/IP protocols is better?

In fact, in my experience the folks with the absolute most pride in their work and general positive sentiment about their role in the world have been restaurant/bar workers. It’s downright common in places like Spain/Italy/Japan, and I see it in some places in America too. But when you’ve preconditioned folks to believe they’re the scum of the earth, that’s what they’ll believe.

I'm someone who did this work for decades and am speaking from my own experience. You mentioned in another comment that your second-hand experience with this is from someone in a union. Which, sure, if I'd been able to find union cooking work maybe I'd still be happy over there.

As it was I was working 60 hour weeks while my teeth were rotting out of my head and I hadn't had a sunday off to go to church in four years. Regardless of the pride I took in my work I think I'm well positioned to describe it as draining.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38449769

Plenty of software jobs might be called draining. For instance the contractors HN loves to pity. But I’m a contractor and I love it, more than my prior FAANG time even.

Still, should we expect public school teachers to deride the idea of being a software engineer because some instances of it are stressful?

> Who are you to say that providing folks with good food and pleasant hospitality they want to keep coming back to and enjoying is somehow a psychologically draining career?

Someone who has experience in those careers, not in Spain/Italy/Japan, but in America. And I've never heard on them being unionized in my particular corner of the country. The only place I've heard of it is in Las Vegas, and yes, the people in those jobs seem to do ok financially and do a good job.

In several of these crap employers I was forced to sit through their anti-union training which I have to was the best proof I ever encountered about how useful a union must be.

It's not just the crap pay, irregular hours and lack of health insurance either. The contempt from customers (I'm sure not you and not all of them) is palpable. Honestly, I'm becoming a bit upset just thinking about it now well over a decade since I last held down a retail counter or slung a burger and fries. I wish all the jobs were as nice as your brother's, but I assure you that the people who work them are unhappy in them for a reason.

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