Comment by vacri | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vacri | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

It may not always be a good idea, but for me, when I get pulled over, I get out of the car immediately. In my 20s I was pulled over so many times for 'random' car checks that were really about bored policemen passing time, that I started to get out of the car first to upset the dynamic.

It helps that I'm really tall, but it's worth it for the look on their face when it turns from 'bored paternalism' to 'we might have to watch what's going on here'; it takes some of the initiative from them. It's a subtle way to change the power dynamic, especially if you're tall - you can no longer be talked down to, plus you're free to move. Being free to move isn't about posing a physical threat, but being able to control your end of the conversation better, plus you can watch what they're doing. Of course you should always, always remain polite, but screw being in the entirely submissive position of being locked into your seat.

Incidentally, the 'random' checks have stopped in the past 5 years that I've had a newer car... and curiously my mother has never been 'randomly' stopped.

Absolute worst idea. This counts as an act of escalation (it counts as a threat to police safety) and is likely to end up with a definite ticket and potentially a handcuffed trip to the station if you don't get back in your car fast when ordered.

Particularly if you're physically imposing you run the risk of a panicked officer pulling their weapon..

To quote myself: being free to move isn't about posing a physical threat. I'm not standing over them, and rarely approach them directly - it's not like I'm panicking the officer.

As for the 'handcuffed trip to the station', that's never happened to me, and I've done it close to a dozen times. I've also never ended up with a ticket while doing this.

What kind of backward country do you live in where you're not free to move around police officers if you're not actually being arrested and you're not threatening them?

The problem is one of statistics.

Whenever they pull someone over, which is often, they have to judge what you're going to do. For them, the chances of you doing something crazy like speeding off, pulling a gun, etc. is not insignificant. That's what they're thinking about when they're walking up to your car. They've been trained about what things to look for. And getting out of your car is the way many violent interactions begin.

If you just get out of your car and act nice, I doubt it could really be a problem. It's just a dicey thing to do, making any sort of act that could be perceived as aggressive towards an officer.

I have found the police to be politer and less patronising when I'm standing out of my car talking politely than when I'm sitting in my car at random traffic stops. Also, where I am, people are not armed as a rule, so fear of guns is there, but at a minimum. If having guns means you have to be too scared to get out of your car for fear of arrest, I'm not interested in having them. It's a somewhat ironic twist that the whole purpose of having an armed population in the US was to keep government authority in check, but here at the coalface of government authority, it gives them even more power out of fear.

And getting out of your car is the way many violent interactions begin.

It is, which is why you remain polite. It's not going to work if you're angry. It does (usually) change the way they talk, since on their part you now need to be managed, which means not going on a power trip. Remain friendly and they won't fear for physical safety, and you're now in a conversation where you're much less a submissive.

"since on their part you need to be managed"

You have been very lucky to get reasonable officers. Most I have talked to (or seen in media / documentaries) have been trained to escalate with force if you are not submissive - get out of your car leads to "GET BACK IN THE CAR NOW HANDS ON THE WHEEL", answering back ("Why? I'm doing nothing wrong") leads to verbal escalation/shouting, shouting yourself leads to handcuffs, resistance (even passive) to physical force or (according to media accounts) tasering. Granted my sample size is potentially biased, but I thought this was the norm. On the other hand, when I've been relaxed, calm, and collected while remaining in the car I've had no issues and otherwise pleasant conversations with officers.

Yeah, I agree with the above poster, horrible idea. Most cops in my experience aren't what the internet makes them out to be. They do their job because they want to serve and protect citizens and having to "change the power dynamic" and "avoid being talked down to" is just silly and jumping out of your car will put cops on edge very quickly. You don't want that. Most of the time they pull someone over it's because you've done something to look shady or you're actually breaking the law.

Every time I've been pulled over to date has been for Driving Whilst Young or Driving An Old Car, and has never been for breaking the law. Shady? I can't answer that, because I'm not sure how one drives shadily.

Those times I've been pulled over have been about bored police passing the time on a power trip, not 'protect and serve' stuff (as evident by my comment above regarding never having a ticket nor being taken in cuffs). It's a power play, and changing the dynamic is a subtle form of passive resistance. Like I started out with, it may not always be a good idea, but for a random stop, you're not going to end up cuffed fro leaving your car.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com