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Comment by askonomm | Hacker News Reader

Ready ready on what? Select hardware? I've thrown 4 regular off the shelf laptops at various DE's using Wayland and they all suck in various ways to the point that they're not even usable. Meanwhile I can throw Windows on all of them, and they work flawlessly. I'm quite tired of Linux guys saying their stuff works just fine, without mentioning how extremely limited is the hardware support to actually run any of those things, and judging from various forums, even if you have supported hardware, things break.

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It's ready for me in that it works better than X11 on my hardware. No it's not flawless like MacOS and to some extent Windows, but it's certainly an improvement over what we had.

Works flawlessly if you've never edited a Xorg config file… if you did, there is no way to keep using the same configuration

Not ever having to touch Xorg config files to get things working is pretty big advantage to me at least.

So let me know how do you write 5 languages properly…

I write 5 languages properly.

Eu escrevo 5 línguas adequadamente.

J'écris cinq langues bien.

Escribo 5 idiomas correctamente.

Scrivo correttamente 5 lingue.

Bravo, e come fai con Øåä e questo genere di lettere?

I don't understand what you're asking or why it's relevant to what I said. Did you mean to reply to someone else, or did you think that I was the same commenter as someone else?

Are you talking about changing keymaps or just different keymaps?

The last you setup in your DE and the first you use xkb as before. (Or at least that’s how I did it before)

I am not trying to change layout, no.

I’ve used Linux for over 10 years and I don’t even know what an xorg config file is. I suspect most users don’t. I wouldn’t expect my desktop environment to require any config.

That stands to reason - the last time I had to edit xorg configs was probably over 15yrs ago getting multi monitor working before xrandr. Since 2005ish, xorg seemed to be able to happily autoconfigure itself.

I didn't mean /etc stuff, I mean more like Xmodmap, .XCompose… the sort of things americans don't use and are completely unaware of.

But I personally speak 5 languages (with very different levels) and writing gets a bit complicated.

Try to define custom XComposeKey sequences, so that you can write math symbols or greek letters and you will find out immediately.

For example I can write ∀ x ∈ ℕ: x > 1 → x² > 1, but not in wayland.

I mean, of course that's the case? xorg.conf* applies to X (the process) which isn't running any longer. Also, most people haven't need d a xorg config in a long while, except for unique cases.

I would hesitate to call MacOS flawless. When I had to use it (m1 pro), it had more issues than Fedora with gnome (which has virtually no issues on the 4 systems I have running it). MacOS wouldn't work with thunderbolt dock, wouldn't work with some monitors / resolutions, requires a paid app to get middle click on touch pad (which is beyond laughable, but goes to show Apple users will pay for anything). The settings GUIs have more legacy than Windows. The updates are terrible... it will uninstall dev tools after an update, and looking at the size of them it's like it downloads and reinstalls the entire OS each time.

Curious, what sort of hardware issues? I don't have experience with Nvidia, but on Intel, my experience is equal on gnome (in fact, quite improved for the last couple of years - more fluid animations, less lag, etc). I've had this experience on thinkpads and most recently a framework laptop (though, vendor hardly makes a difference in this case).

Most of the issues are Linux auto-installing wrong graphic drivers, which then after a reboot results in a broken DE that doesn't work, and I don't want to spend my time manually verifying every update it tells me to install. I've had that in latest Ubuntu and Mint, to name a few. Other common issues I stumble upon is lack of audio driver support with either the audio not working at all, or working badly (no bass at all, very thin sound). Trackpad multi-touch support is bad in pretty much every distro (no decent gestures support, horrible inertia). Then of course what is now a running joke that Linux is unable to put my computer to sleep, so when I close the lid and open it again a few hours later, the battery is drained. So and so forth, and this is why I will not use Linux, because I don't find tinkering with any of this enjoyable at all, and want to get on with my work.

OK, so general linux issues unspecific to wayland. I don't share your experience, but it's rather off-topic for this post.

> Most of the issues are Linux auto-installing wrong graphic drivers,

What? Since when linux auto-install drivers?

You get those with your kernel and mesa (except nvidia). There is no installation.

> Then of course what is now a running joke that Linux is unable to put my computer to sleep, so when I close the lid and open it again a few hours later, the battery is drained.

Windows has exactly the same problem. You can thank "Connected standby" (pushed by Microsoft) for that -- neither Linux, nor Windows puts computer to sleep. They ask the firmware to put the computer to sleep. If the firmware is buggy, here's your problem.

This is about X vs Wayland, not Windows vs Linux.

It's about the GPU used in regular laptops, I'd imagine, for which Windows has drivers and support, and Linux does not. That's my point. X11 for those laptops works more reliably, but even then there's immense screen tearing, blurry texts, broken fractional scaling, etc. I just don't know why I would ever use software of this quality when even Windows XP had less issues like this in its hayday, and it released 20 years ago.

The large majority of laptops use Intel or AMD APU's, both of which work fabulously. Gaming laptops using NVidia chips aren't regular laptops.

If you mean NVIDIA, then they haven't played nicely with the kernel or X11 either.

Distros that "work" have to pin and lock your X11 and kernels to get the magic combination.

Nvidia has been terrible for a while, and this is not Wayland specific.

My Intel and AMD laptops have worked great.

My SteamDeck is awesome.

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