7,000 pubs forced to close in last 10 years
harpers.co.uk
harpers.co.uk
I get why pub owners aren't please with this situation, but I do think it's a win for society as a whole. It's also a bit strange (even if it's technically correct) to use the word "forced" for businesses that are simply getting less clients.
But more to the point - while alcohol and binge drinking certainly aren’t great for society some of these places must have been the “third place” (not work or home) that is getting harder to find (both for free e.g. public spaces or without getting nickeled and dimed for simply being a customer).
I’m surprised that many coffee places close as early as they do (typically mid afternoon or earlier) and don’t move into the late night third place spot that these bars fulfill.
What about government regulations is wrong here, and why would this result in soulless chain stores?
Aren’t soulless chains the default resting state of a mature economic sector?
I disagree. My comment was in direct response to the GP's comment of:
> It's strange when businesspeople seem to expect that their business has a right to exist beyond profitability in the market place.
When the "marketplace" is dictated by government policy, it's fair to question the effects of policy. You cannot handwaved it away with claims of some hand of God marketplace that no one has the ability to influence.
> What about government regulations is wrong here
I specifically stated I was not making claims of whether this result was good or bad.
> and why would this result in soulless chain stores?
You ask this, and then go on to say:
> Aren’t soulless chains the default resting state of a mature economic sector?
Clearly, the operating environment results in this sort of thing. The environment is influenced by government.
Soulless chains need not be the default resting state. For instance, a government could introduce a prgressive company tax rate, or rules (like limits on number of liquor licenses a Corp can own), making it easier for small businesses to compete.
Now, I will make a value judgement: soulless chains, and massive businesses are not good for society for many reasons. I would much rather live in a world of many competing small businesses, than a homogeneous pastiche of mediocrity.
Millennials And Gen Zs are also more anxious and stressed than previous generations.
In the past (before cars) people used to work and socialise far more locally.
While drunk driving was and is a huge problem, and does cost lives, I do think the USA (and maybe UK, I don't live there) have massively over-corrected on the problem. The pendulum has swung so far, and cops enforce so aggressively, that you really can't chance even having a single beer while out with your car--even if you know it won't put you over the limit. And a DUI on your past record will stay with you basically forever.
Depending on the US State, you can even get a DUI for many things that don't involve drinking or driving:
- You're merely seated in a vehicle while intoxicated
- You're sleeping in the car with your car keys nearby, and intoxicated
- You're standing outside a vehicle while intoxicated, without any intention of driving
- You're in possession of car keys near your car, while intoxicated
- You're tired or lost (but haven't been drinking) and the officer thinks you are intoxicated
No, I don't want to go back to the days when it was socially acceptable for people to get shitfaced and drive home because it's just around the corner. I had a classmate killed 2 years out of high school as a passenger of such an asshat. But I do think we've over-corrected to the point where I won't even dare to drive to dinner or a pub if I'm going to have a single beer there. I just drink at home now.
Pubs in the UK, for better or for worse, serve an important function as being pretty much the only "third place" [1] for a large number of Britons [1]. If you say "it's good because people are drinking less" or "businesses don't have a right to exist", you're completely missing the point.
Is this an ideal situation? No. But UK pubs closing is really a function of the sky-high cost of housing specifically and the cost of living more generally. People have less free time because they're forced to work more to make ends meet. And pubs are expensive because they have to pay for their own commercial space.
People get really excited about their home price going up because on paper it loiks like they've made a profit but in real terms you haven't: you still only own one housing unit worth of wealth. If you sell your house, you still have to live somewhere.
But more importantly, that cost of housing is an input factor into every business you frequent or use.
This really represents a breakdown in UK society.
The George is closed and forgot;
Some changes are all for the better,
But Woolworth's is probably not.
Sounds like the "problem" (if it's indeed that) is decreasing.
How many were freehouses?
How many belonged to brewers?
This headline number, along with those in the article, are meaningless without deeper context.
This is to say nothing of the violence and murdery shit that directly flows from alcohol consumption, statistically speaking
Drunk: How We Sipped, Danced, and Stumbled Our Way to Civilization Hardcover by Edward Slingerland
https://www.amazon.com/Drunk-Sipped-Danced-Stumbled-Civiliza...
Source: https://liquiddeath.com/
Edi: okay, give me a few months' headstart, got some other nails to hit so I don't continue to step on them as I approach. They will have to come to me tho, I don't do international lawsuits lol. The quality or expense or dilligence of their anti-accountabillity hit squad are of zero consequence to me and they will come to know accountabillity finally.
Educating people is the only moral approach, but these days anyones opinion is as valid as expert knowledge so that is out the window.
I did share my personal take on what I want and don't want going forward beacause of where I was with it in my life and where I'm going now that I am not weighed down and mutated by it any further.
There's zero coercion. If people want to try to grt off, I would say talk to your dr and request nalfamene so you can still drink what you like but in a context that starts to remove the psychological and physical hooks it digs into anyone who loses the plot with it. If you need the anxiety help, request baclofen as an adjuvant and work your way down at whatever pace if at all that works for you
Nalfamene or naltrexone or whatever opidoid antagonists are available thru NHS is a successfull and affirming approach that makesit simple and likely to be successfull with attenuating issues with addiction and use of alcohol. I get I'm n=1 but what's the harm in exploring your options?
If I loved someone and I was invested/wanted them to heal and organically redefine their relationship with alc, I would help them with this even if I had to take them to the Dr myself to ensure they walked out with what they need and there was no ambiguity about how they are to honor the regiment that is available for their healing.
If I don't care for someone, I remain silent and return my efforts to address my own imperfections and pain so everyone is better of if I meet them or not
I personally believe that lack of physical activity actually plays a larger role in what drives the resulting health issues.
Some people are indeed living better lives, freer of problems for not being around alcohol. Yes. But a lot of people are probably at home watching the tele instead, and many of them were fine &didn't have problems with alcohol in the old culture. And a good number of the people who would have had problems are pants drunk instead, and some who would have been fine happy people having a pub scene are probably doing much worse instead.
There's a difference between "I want to drink less" and "I can't afford to drink as much as I want"
Also a lot of people have complete alcoholics in their family and history and it's not seen as a socially acceptable thing and is tied to negative sentiment as well.
Millions of people enjoy visiting pubs every week and the overwhelming majority don’t have an alcohol problem.
It’s an important venue for social connections at a time when there are less and less of those. They haven’t been replaced with other venues for many people, particularly the elderley who already struggle with social isolation.
They are also a big part of our culture and heritage at a time when that is also under threat from many angles.
The industry covers tens of thousands of jobs and captures boat loads of taxes both directly and indirectly.
And the annoying thing is that they are still viable small businesses, but the big pubcos and the taxes have squeezed the industry until it’s unviable to operate.
I’m not a big pub person, but I think it’s a shame to lose one of the few remaining pastimes which haven’t been replaced with an app.
Nah we all have an alcohol problem. It’s still worth it though because a beer objectively tastes better when it’s drank away from home.
If the primary purpose of a space is a singular activity that overwhelms discussion of other things, then it’s not a third space.
Sporting associations can be third spaces, but that isn’t the case if people take the sport seriously.
This feels like a leap.
For a lot of younger people, the alternative seems to be staying home and socializing less.
I was in a pub near St Pauls earlier today, one built by Christopher Wren with some friends I hadn't seen for a long time ahead of a mattine performance. The four of us sat round the fire, one had a pint of draft peer, another half a pint, another a mulled wine, and another a coffee. Certainly not expensive -- less than the cost of a coffee from starbucks, certainly not a pit of misery, and I didn't get the impression anyone near us was miserable.
Meanwhile just down the road are chain stores selling heavily processed junk food causing far more damage, but I'm sure you consider them healthier because of your puritanical beliefs.
They give the market what they want in terms of cheap food and beer, and some of the venues are beautiful.
Most of them are fairly civilised during the week as they revolve around food and there are families present.
The city centre ones do get a bit rowdy on Friday and Saturday nights though.
Not a puritan. Just realistic. I don't care what you do. People care what they do and the end game is they started caring about themselves more.
The "good" implies that you might think these places deserve to go out of business because they are expensive. You can bet your ass that they're expensive because all of their costs have skyrocketted, not because they are profiteering.