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Comment by mortallywounded | Hacker News Reader

Something feels off... those apps don't seem like 33K/MRR worthy. I suspect some kind of manipulation was being done to... help?

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I've never seen these apps before. I have no idea who this company is. But these icons, names, and type of apps I typically associate with trash behaviour I wish was removed from the app store. Like a Video Joiner Pro that lets you concat two videos, has a 1 week free trial and then $20/month subscription.

Edit: Ahh yup, that's exactly what this is

> A simple and convenient collage maker will help you make cool videos for TikTok and Instagram, Facebook.

> Subscription price $ 3.99 / week, $ 19.99 / year and $ 39.99 / forever

$3.99/week subscription is deliberately predatory. It tries to bait people in thinking "oh it's just $3.99", and then forgetting and now paying $17/month for a photo collage app.

I'm not sad this developer's had their account cancelled.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xJlbYZ...

this is exactly what i feel about most of the apps on the app store over the years, but i was never able to actually articulate it. very eloquently put!

I think the most charitable thing you can say is this developer played with fire - engaging in scummy subscription pricing tactics - and got burnt. Neither App Store nor this developer played honourably.

Got burnt, but only after pulling the average annual Chilean income every month for an unspecified amount of time.

I agree, even the author aludes to this when refering to trials and how to cancel them. (text in parenthesis added by me)

> One day before removal, we had 1209 active trials. (money in our pockets)

> [...] established a help center with articles on canceling trials (cause we have a UI team dedicated on making it complicated)

Cancelling anything on an Apple device cannot possibly be complicated. It’s a single screen in settings, and there’s nothing app developers can do to mess with that.

I find that a little harsh. The prices are clear, and you can either pass or remember to cancel.

I would bet that they got cancelled because of end user complaints directly to Apple and/or chargebacks from credit card companies.

> $3.99/week subscription is deliberately predatory. It tries to bait people in thinking "oh it's just $3.99", and then forgetting and now paying $17/month for a photo collage app.

How is that predatory? It makes perfect sense to me and I’d probably do it myself if I ever were to sell an app this way. If someone just installs my app once, to make a single video, then immediately cancels, I still want to make some money off that.

That’s probably how 90% of these apps are used.

One way apps get high MRR is by offering free trial for a small period, then charging for subscriptions later

The user forgets about the subscriptions and ends up paying for a while before cancelling

This is probably what apple means by "bait and switch"

Of course I can't say if these app did this or not, I am just saying this is a common practice

that is done by literally 80% of the paid apps. so I suspect that is not the banned behavior. it's the same on the web, you sign up for a free trial but leave the CC

“Everyone (80%) does it so it’s ok”

That may be true but it may just be that Apple hates this but has trouble writing the right set of rules that don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

And then when they get the slightest excuse (the fake fake reviews yes double fake) then they take the opportunity to close the unpleasant account.

Actually if 20% of the apps don’t do these scummy dark patterns, I’d just as soon see only those better apps in the store.

I appreciate that you can cancel the subscription right away at the start of the trial and Apple and the vendor isn't notified.

Curious that this doesn't work for Apple services. If you cancel the free trial, you lose access immediately.

I was a bit disappointed that they don't live up to the standards they expect of 3rd party devs.

but remember the App Store review protects people from bait and switch! /s

> I am just saying this is a common practice

This is how AppleTV works. I assume Apple does this with other services too.

The developer might be scummy (very arguable tbh), but Apple being the arbitrator of what scummy bait and switch behavior is allowed is not acceptable.

I don't see apple going after gambling like behavior in freemium games as long as they get a 30% cut for example.

If apple can't enforce an ethical stance as a standard uniformly, then they aren't being ethical.

> some kind of manipulation

They tell you what kind of manipulation, in what they hastily tried to unwind when caught... a whole TODO list for scammy apps:

"Within 10 days, we updated each of the six applications: removed all rating requests, revised all payment screens in line with Apple's recommendations, added Intercom for swift user assistance, established a help center with articles on canceling trials, requesting refunds, and implemented subscription management directly within the applications."

Trying to address anything that _could_ be seen as a problem is not an admission of wrongdoing. This is the behavior of someone who has been accused of bad faith or rule-breaking but has no other recourse but to try and follow the rules as strictly as possible going forward.

>those apps don't seem like 33K/MRR worthy

It's 6 of them, so more like ~5K USD/month revenue.

I'm sorry that you've never built something meaningful, but that revenue bracket is actually low for a decent app with some marketing going on.

I can only hope to one day build something as meaningful as "Fontly Color Fonts." Alas, there can only be so many geniuses capable of sculpting meaning out of the chaos that is the aether.

Well, let's see what you've built so far. :^)

I have used "free" apps that require you to enable a trial but then I forgot to cancel it and ended up paying 3 weeks or so. Isn't this the way most mobile apps bring their revenue today?

Yes, subscription apps earn revenue as a result of people who chose not to cancel their subscriptions.

For sure, this seems super suspect. Unless they mean Chilean Pesos, but that would seem far too low.

The guy lives in Chile but the company is registered at Hong Kong.

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