Smart mattress CEO reminds everyone his company collects customers' sleep data | Hacker News Reader

Smart mattress CEO reminds everyone his company collects customers' sleep data

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54 pointssurprisetalk45 comments

I don't recommend getting the Eight Sleep device. It's bricked without internet access. I'm not a fan of high priced home appliances that require internet for basic functionality.

And their privacy policy allows them to sell your sleep data. The sensors can detect when there's another person in the bed with you, so having a partner sleep over presumably sends their biometric data to Eight Sleep without your partner's consent.

I'm usually pretty privacy conscious but for some reason I didn't read the privacy policy on this before buying it and I deeply regret that.

This product was being shilled by several Twitter-famous ppl, including some YC alums. Later found out they all had a financial interest in Eight Sleep.

Not just internet, but $20/mo subscription for features you control through the app. I'm pretty open to experimentation with bedding and sleep related accessories but my expectations of this product wouldn't match its cost. The testimonial reel looks like a who's who of insanely rich people.

My most recent purchase is a wool comforter, and I thought that was pricey at just a couple hundred bucks. Serving me well enough. I sometimes have to fold it over itself and if I leave some of it off my feet I won't overheat. Prior to this I was layering all sorts of sheets and blankets, which was hit-and-miss, but I've found that the worst pitfall is a stuffy closed room with a heat vent. Gotta keep the door open a crack or the window, in Winter months. Summer can also be tough.

I bought it before the subscription so early adopters don't pay anything monthly. There's absolutely no way I would have paid a monthly fee for a biometric device I need to use daily. I avoided the Whoop band for exactly that reason.

A bricked mattress certainly doesn't sound like a good time.

Oh God I didn't realize there was a whole new trend where you pay a leg for the hardware and then ounces of blood each month to have even any useful functionality. Then I looked up the oura ring. Wtf indeed!

In case anyone else was wondering why in the world anyone needs a smart mattress; it has both heating and cooling capability, as well as vibration (for alarms). Presumably it is programmable via an app and, of course, collects usage data. Sounds like a really nice product if it weren't for the privacy issues.

Heating and cooling my bed has been such a game changer for me.

I don’t have this bed. But I use the bed jet and chili pad. It’s great if you like to sleep with a lot of blankets without sweating. I like both. Neither tracks my sleep, use, or have ever been connected to the internet.

What brand/model for each? My wife would love some solution to this. I was about to try the purple matress.

I use the chilipad, from sleep.me . Seems like they have quite few options. I have the lowest end model and I definitely want to upgrade to the pro when I can. But the cubes have been good to me.

And then I also use the bedjet. Bedjet.com. It blows air. I just don't like the constant feeling of air blowing, but its great for the feet when hopping in and having the option for quick fix (hot or cold) in the middle of the night.

Another vote for Bedjet here. I have chronic sleep problems and plus a condition that means I’m prone to overheating and the Bedjet has genuinely changed my quality of life for the better.

Great product. Their iPhone app UI could use some love, but it does what I need it to.

(You also get a nice hardware remote)

If you're using ESPhome, the BedJet addon replaces the hardware remote and app. It's kind of funny if only because the only processing inside the BedJet is..... an esp32, so you're throwing an ESP32 at another ESP32 ;)

https://esphome.io/components/climate/bedjet.html

I run my BedJet into HomeAssistant (and from there, into HomeKit) so it's so nice to ask Siri to warm up my bed now.

I found mine at a Value Village for a hundred bucks with everything but the mattress clip and remote, and BedJet support was able to just let me buy the mattress macguffin again for around $25ish.

Do you use the BedJet sheet? I find it much nicer than the air blowing directly.

I don’t. I was always worried about the sheet quality but seems like good feedback here.

I've been wondering about things like this for a while. I run hot and sleep much better in cold temperatures (looking forward to cold winter nights). A weighted blanket helps, but I'll definitely look into the chili pad and bed jet. Thanks for mentioning!

Another BedJet fan. My wife and I both agree it’s in the top 3-4 purchases since we’ve been together (10 years).

I think I would give up most other possessions before it. It is probably only beaten out by a few very sentimental items (like my wedding rings), Kindle Voyager (by far the best eReader Amazon ever made IMHO) and a couple of my newer Apple devices (Apple Pencil 2 and AirPods with iPhone are just magic).

Individualized climate control in bed is a luxury that has put a grateful smile on me for almost every day over the last 6 years.

Do you ever try swaddling yourself? Sometimes its the only thing that I find works for me and my overactive mind

So is this thing connected to a compressor like a fridge? Or how does it cool the pad?

Yeah it connects to a little water chiller. It’s a quick connect system. I’m not sure if it’s proprietary, but I’d guess it’s not. The chiller has physical climate control buttons.

This product is the epitome of everything wrong with startups and VC.

There is no justification for why a bed mattress should require a subscription.

BMW is doing that, and it's older than the Thousand-Year reich.

this is not a consequence of VC, rather, it's evidence that slippery slope is law rather than fallacy.

I heard recently that BMW have back pedaled from subscriptions due to the massive backlash, so maybe that's a small win? don't know

They also only tried it in South Korea, so it’s not like a thing most BMW owners experienced.

But that's every car manufacturer nowadays, no?

You pay monthly for Apple Whatever. You pay for adaptive cruise control. You pay for smart headlights.

At least with BMW you could buy the permanent unlock.

In fact, I didn't mind the idea. When looking for cars heated seats for me are non-negotiable. And 1/2 don't seem to have them.

With this at least I would've had much more selection of used cars.

That said, BMW should stop being so cheap. They're expensive enough to get the option by default (these days they actually do here in the USA).

It works without a subscription. The subscription is an extra on top of the bed. It's main value is a temperature thermostat with 2 separated water cooling layers, which can be a godsend for some.

You are required to a buy a full year membership when purchasing.

And then if you don't have it basic features like scheduling temperatures aren't available.

The mattress will not allow you to sleep unless your subscription is active

"But, you see, what we're really trying to do here is redefine the mattress industry, from providing a passive product into more of a compelling interactive sleep experience..."

(/s? I hope?)

Providing a sense of pride and accomplishment

It seems like it gives incentive to improve things though.

>Eight Sleep’s “Pod” mattress topper costs at least $1,795 in the United States, plus a $15 per month subscription which is required for the first year of use

What happens if you stop paying the subscription? Does it smother you to death?

No because then they don't get paid. It wakes you up every few minutes with a reminder to pay

I remember when nag-ware was just pop-up-modals

I was once a consultant on a project where a notable design firm designed an operating system for a mattress that conformed to your body. The OS was based on AOSP, so plenty of nice support for custom UI widgets. Some of the sensor inputs were easy to make use of: The mattress would be pumped up to look flat when nobody was sleeping on it. Otherwise it would look like a worn-out mattress. One of the problems to solve was to detect when the occupants of the mattress would rather have a flat surface for activities than have it conform to their bodies.

I cannot understand how people could possibly spend $1800 on a mattress topper which adds no value to them and actually steals their data to enrich other people...

Yet at the same time it's such a struggle for legitimate companies to sell useful products to people these days. It often feels like people who have money only buy stuff which harms them and avoid anything that might actually improve their lives. What is going on? Are most people NPCs? It is extremely obvious that something is not right.

You're assuming that humans act rationally. Advertising (and other messaging) can and does convince buyers there is some utility.

Busy people with money they want to spend use price as a proxy for value and quality. When they need something specific, they look among the more highly priced versions of an item or service for the one that suits them. When they just want to go shopping, they look at the more highly priced priced goods.

To them, an mattress topper that costs $1800 is a mattress topper that's worth $1800. "That must be an incredible mattress topper! Get me one!"

If you want to sell to the people that buy things like this, you need to signal to them with your price. The high-end is a whole different market and mentality than most companies organize their business model around.

An interesting Tweet where somebody approximates Eight Sleep sales/subs counts: https://twitter.com/laurenbalik/status/1727385607041667430

My cpap has a cell chip in it. Sends my sleep data to the company, my doctor, and insurance. It’s hipaa protected since it’s a medical device so I don’t worry about it. Would not be as ok with a random tech startup collecting the same data.

We could have that same level of data protection for everything, not just medical devices. There’s no fundamental reason not to.

Then your sanctity is legally protected, but endangered by incompetence and techno-resistant end-runs around security controls. Ask sysads: nurses and doctors are the fucking worst.

Legal requirement for a shitty company to safeguard your data is a poor alternative to the company never receiving your data.

This is why we put IoT bumbaaclaat on a first network and block outbound...

It also sends your data to anyone that does not care about laws. Almost 0 companies have the in-house expertise to have a chance in hell at providing reasonable data security.

I kick-started their thing when they were called Luna. This sort of thing is cool, honestly. I had a mattress topper from them and wouldn't have cared.

Man, back in the day, Okcupid had some good shit. Now, can you imagine?

But you gotta adapt to changing times. Just opt in for this and all is well.

I can barely get past the first couple of sentences.

If you are paying a subscription for a fucking MATTRESS, especially after that out-the-door price, you should be deeply ashamed. Go ahead and flame me or write an embarrassing rationalization, you’re wrong.

Sure, everyone deserves privacy, even absolute psychopaths that buy shit like this. But there has to be a point where people become personally accountable for making catastrophically stupid choices that enable loathsome low rent parasites on society and industry.

Bad. But nothing compared to what openai does.

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