Toyota SUV adverts banned in UK on environmental grounds | Hacker News Reader

Toyota SUV adverts banned in UK on environmental grounds

theguardian.com

63 pointsprawn55 comments

SUV adverts are just so deliberately weird. Somehow they get away with showing the streets being always empty as if it's permanently the World Cup Final on a Bank Holiday.

The truth is you'll probably be driving in traffic or crawling in a traffic jam… of which you are the cause. They'll never, ever show someone struggling to park one in a standard space at an urban supermarket.

SUVs should be banned. They are much more likely to kill when hitting pedestrians and cyclists. No reason for oversize overweight vehicles in our public spaces. Its a public health hazard.

Why not just ban all cars? Any car is a huge health hazard for pedestrians compared to a bike. But even bikes are dangerous. If we all walked, we'd be safer. Only delivery trucks from here on out!

Like most public policy issues, a balance needs to be struck. Typical SUV trips could easily be done in a lighter vehicle or even no vehicle at all.

Moronic comment. Have you ever considered that some people have multiple children?

Ads showing traffic jams could actually help promote large cars.

If it was a long crawl through a traffic jam every time I went to get groceries I'd be tempted to get a good sized garage ready freezer [1] and a larger car so I would only need to drive to the grocery store once or twice a month. There's a small grocery store within walking distance that is too expensive and doesn't have enough variety to be my main grocery store but would work for those things that won't keep for a month.

[1] A normal home freezer that is part of a fridge/freezer is typically is designed to work in a room around 55-110℉ (13-43℃) and a normal stand alone home freezer typically works down to 32℉ (0℃). A "garage ready" freezer is one designed to work when the room temperature is 0-110℉ (-18-43℃) so if you don't have room in the house you can put it in your garage.

Why would you buy a car tailored specifically for buying groceries? Especially if the prospect is unappealing traffic jams when going to the store?

Since the beginning of the pandemic most supermarkets have a decent delivery service. I pay 1£ for delivery (4h window) and when I was in the EU, my store of choice gave delivery for free if you purchased some specific items.

>Why would you buy a car tailored specifically for buying groceries?

For many people moving stuff from shops to their home is their primary use case for an automobile. Why wouldnt they buy a car tailored for that purpose?

My point is that several of us got cars before grocery delivery services were widespread and common.

If you have a sunken investment, then it makes sense to use your already-depreciated car for grocery... But otherwise, assuming you have access to affordable delivery service, you might as well save yourself the effort and cost, and only use a car for the other needs in your life.

YMMV of course, you could go for a smaller and cheaper to run car, but if you have a family you'd probably need 4 comfortable seats...

Grocery delivery services are crap. They have problems with improper substitutions and low quality produce.

Plus Costco doesn't deliver, and that's where many of us do our bulk shopping with large vehicles. (You can order from Costco through Instacart in some areas but it's one of the worst of the delivery services.)

If I wasn't a car enthusiast 99% of my driving would be to a grocery store, hardware store or a clinic/doctor's office.

I think my ideal utility vehicle would be an electric van...

Grocery delivery in my area is expensive ($10 or so) and they usually don't give you everything you ordered. My annual cost to own a car is under $1000 including gas, so it doesn't save much money to ditch the car.

> Ads showing traffic jams could actually help promote large cars.

This is high on the list of BS claims I have seen. If it were true, why wouldn't car companies use it to sell cars?

> Somehow they get away with showing the streets being always empty

Does anyone show vehicles in a lot of traffic in their advertising?

What's hilarious is the defence that the whole thing was fabricated in CG. Effectively: it's ok because we're misleading viewers as to what they're seeing and they know it.

I don't know how big offroading is in the UK but here in the US offroading is really big and the Tacoma (closest thing we have to the Hilux) is one of the most popular options.

While I concede that there should be questions about the environmental impact of all of it, I overall think it's a net positive to get people outdoors, and offroading is another avenue that people can use.

I think the agency is missing the forest for the trees here, you want to encourage people to get out and about. When you only consider the emissions it's a net negative, but when you extrapolate and start thinking about the benefits to society when you have more people going out, being active, etc, it becomes a net positive.

Also typically you do not do much driving (distance wise) when offroad. Average speeds are anywhere between 10-30MPH depending on what you're going over and it's typically over relatively short distances (10 miles offroad might take you an hour+ to traverse).

Most of the UK is either agricultural land, towns, or a few national parks. There’s not really anywhere to go offroading.

The main reason people buy SUVs is for status, to pick up kids from school, that’s why they have the nickname “Chelsea tractors”.

UK streets were designed for horses, not cars, thus a lot of people don’t really like them because they don’t fit.

At face value, it doesn’t seem like encouraging more off-roading is a positive for the environment. I’ve been involved in some very light off roading, but nothing like what comes to mind for most people.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_t32...

> While I concede that there should be questions about the environmental impact of all of it, I overall think it's a net positive to get people outdoors, and offroading is another avenue that people can use.

I fully encourage getting people outdoors more, but surely we must balance the relative impacts. And to be clear, I don’t have enough information on which way to land on this particular question.

I believer that commenter was mostly focused on the positives of getting people outside and touching grass.

On that note, there is certainly a balance that can exist between enjoying the outdoors and minimizing damage. This is also true for more aggressive activities, like off-roading, dirt bikes, and even gentler activities that impact the land like primitive camping.

The UK is quite tight on space, but in the US it can all responsibly coexist.

In (Western and Central) Europe one doesn't need a car to be active, they can usually take the train and then hike or bike or XC ski.

> I don't know how big offroading is in the UK but here in the US offroading is really big

I'd be willing to bet that in the US it's a very very small percentage of people who own SUVs that do any kind of offroading.

I don't know what the percentage is, but it's enough to support purpose-specific offroad parks, businesses that specialize in building/repairing/improving off road trucks & SUVs, ATV and UTV dealerships, and so on.

I'd guess it's somewhere between "really big" and "very, very small." And also very regional.

I know a couple folks, including family, who have spent tons of money modifying their vehicles for off-roading. Lifted, added light bars, full size spare taking up the whole bed, the works.

I'm sure someone somewhere actually uses it, but they don't.

You mean you know multiple people who spent all that money and don't ever take the thing off-road? Do they plan to at some point or was it always intended to be strictly for show?

Not surprising. Many people do that just for show. OTOH, many people, including my former self, spend buttloads of money on the vehicle in ways that aren't even visible and take it offroad, finding all the weak spots, ripping them out, spending even more money on tougher stuff... and the circle of life continues.

For show.

Brother in law often complains he can't carry anything in his truck because of the giant tire in the back.

Being in a car is not being outdoors. You're literally behind a door.

Hilux is not an SUV. I don't see the point in banning a car ad from 3 years ago when the vehicle has undergone a facelift since - it seems unlikely that the ad would still be shown at all at this point.

It sets a precedent that might be policed to future ads.

Honestly that engine, although famously mythologised by clarkson etc. as being nigh-indestructible, is horrendously bad on fuel economy and rather underpowered on top of that. At least this is the case for the Tacoma pickup version of that aging mill, and 4Runner which is sold in the states. Maybe there are other options for the Hilux in Europe but it's really time for Toyota to recognize that rather fewer than 1 in 10 Hilux owners are going to be driving the trucks off of cliff faces or across the polar ice gaps, and the putative trade off of reliability and durability for fuel economy needs to be revisited in light of how the thing is actually used.

"That engine" the 22r/22re has not been used in new cars for at least 30 years. The economy was quite good, particularly considering the weight of the car and the 1950s design. The Tacoma never used that engine.

“That engine” was a turbo diesel never sold in North America, not the 22re

Wait, do folks in the UK refer to what we Americans call "pickup trucks" as SUVs?

Well, I would rebut and ask why you call a 4x4 with a little open-roof boot a "truck".

I think most would refer to this as a "pickup", but I can easily see how this new Hilux is more of an SUV than any kind of real 4x4 offroad truck.

"Cries for attention"

.. or Chelsea tractors (Chelsea being a rich suburb of London)

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/07/stereoty...

Pickup trucks are pretty much a rounding error over in Europe. Considering that the Hilux is marketed as the bastard child of an offroad vehicle and passenger car, calling it an SUV isn't too much of a stretch.

You just don't see many pickups at all in the UK or Europe, only really as obviously imported ones (Usually the really annoyingly big ones). Their roles are filled by various vans, small trucks or trailers. Probably an unsecured storage area would seem insane to most people from the UK unless you actually needed it for a trade

Exactly, every single builder or similar has a van. It can be locked and it doesn't rain inside.

Despite the common nonsense about blue collar workers using trucks for work in the US, trades predominantly use commercial vans here as well. If you call a plumber or electrician, they're probably coming in a Ford Transit. Because they hold more and people can't easily steal your stuff.

The trucks I've seen on the road, across many states, predominantly have empty beds and one occupant, which is a disgraceful waste of fuel. Even if some percentage were carrying things for work, it's hardly the norm.

Uh, no handymen, plumbers, hvac people, electricians, all use trucks quite frequently in my neck if the woods.

Of course, vans are popular too, but lots if tradespeople use trucks as well.

The rot started with “self-charging hybrid”.

The first time I saw that I laughed at the audacity, absolute cynical bullshit by the industry.

I think the 'SUVs driving through empty cities' ads are worse.

SUVs are pure fuck you I got mine individualism. They make the road more dangerous for pedestrians and even other drivers due to their size. And the reasons people give for owning them are usually bullshit. They're not even more spacious than a van. And the pickup trucks keep getting shorter in the back and longer in the front so the utility is getting worse every year. Unfortunately it has now become an arms race whereby people are almost forced to get a big vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo

The error here is that people have somehow been convinced that they need to give a reason. I think "because I like it" as far as reasons go is good and comprehensive enough.

Totally agree. As long as it's been sussed out as available to purchase legally, who is anybody to tell others what they can or cannot buy? So many people looking at other people's backyards and not their own in most cases.

If they remained in people's backyards then it wouldn't be an issue, however they're used and often stored in public spaces. So I think it is valid for other people to have an opinion about these things.

Agree on opinion, not censoring ads of CG pickup trucks used mainly by workers in industry, not your family's SUV...

I saw a tequila ad the other day where a guy carelessly drives a motorboat into a swimming pool and other shenanigans. Alcohol is involved in 80% of all violet crimes. Are you for censoring beer and liquor ads on Youtube or other places? Are you for alcohol prohibition? Probably not in all likelihood.

Again, this is a pick up truck, not an SUV, and they are typically driven by workers in conditions that require durability and utility. I drove a Hilux in Saudi Arabia for 6 months doing major construction. I crossed desert roads and active excavations, so how is this FU to anything? People seem to love censorship these days enough to create multiple ways to enact it like nature's stewardship, etc. I grew up in Brooklyn, and a lot of my more vocal environmentalist acquaintances I knew didn't take the time to look at their own wastefulness, only others - they loved imported goods like pineapple and other groceries that have to be shipped to their local Zabars/Whole Foods etc. without a thought to the impact this has compared to someone living in more rural areas and buying local produce; the inefficiencies of the older apartments they live in.

As far as pick up trucks being more dangerous to pedestrians and other drivers, how many Hilux pick up trucks can you count in your area? Larger objects are more easily seen. Electric bikes and vehicles are silent, and are the cause of many pedestrian and rider injuries. People jump on electric scooters without any skill or physical fitness and twist the throttle up without any preparation on how to stop quickly or dismount in an emergency. Look at all the pedestrian deaths in China when electric scooters and bikes became popular. Or the graveyards of new electric vehicles in China due to failed startups using electric vehicles. Arms race, really? How do you commute, or haul things?

Frankly, you sound envious of large vehicle owners.

Calm down.

Toyota Hilux ‘born to roam’ campaign is fully organic. Example video by random African influencers: