Uber slashes fees in Bangladesh as drivers keep taking rides offline | Hacker News Reader

Uber slashes fees in Bangladesh as drivers keep taking rides offline

restofworld.org

36 pointsmfiguiere17 comments

I've done this with gig-economy stuff like Taskrabbit, where you can hire people to help you move, assemble furniture, etc.

Once I hired someone a couple of times and was happy with their work, I simply got the person's phone number and contracted with them separately. They get their full fee in cash, without the middleman's cut.

I think there could be a market for a more ethical app, a better way to solve the problem of transport on demand, and this issue might be the perfect way to get into the market.

The app would be a subscription for drivers or passengers that is inexpensive and simply connects drivers with passengers. The drivers have to figure out how much the journey will cost which keeps down the server interaction/processing required per customer. Maybe the drivers could bid of there is a relative surplus of drivers, much like some apps offer now.

The idea is to make an open market place to connect drivers and passengers, maybe even payment processors as well. The app should interfere and interact as little as possible with trips

Take a look at ONDC. They do exactly this in India. Early days, but seemingly successful with very low fees.

https://ondc.org/

> The drivers have to figure out how much the journey will cost which keeps down the server interaction/processing required per customer.

I don't think this makes sense. This seems like something difficult for people to figure out and easy for computers. I would think the cost of doing that calculation is pennies at most.

I would actually lean into the server processing. Have the drivers enter in their make/model, and a basic pricing algorithm (e.g. 10% over cost, or cost + $5 + 10%, or just $x/mile). The cost should preferably be "all in", including stuff like oil changes, wear and tear, depreciation, etc. When a customer requests a ride, they get automatic quotes from nearby drivers.

> The drivers have to figure out how much the journey will cost which keeps down the server interaction/processing required per customer.

This seems like an issue. If drivers don't have uniform pricing then they aren't fungible. As a user, if different drivers have different pricing, I expect to be able to be pick which driver and price I want. This seems at odds with drivers, who won't want to manually make quotes just to get turned down repeatedly.

Like I said before, I don't think that server processing is a significant cost. I would expect that these kinds of rough cost calculations could be done locally on the phone.

From their description of the mechanics of khep, it sounds like one flavor is drivers and passengers who connect the old-fashioned way (by hailing) using the app to negotiate a fair fare.

It sounds like both sides of the transaction there don’t feel like they’re getting 25%-of-the-ride’s-worth of “safety features” out of the deal, but that the (free-ish) fare quote part of the service is serving a useful role.

I wonder if there’s space for some local developer with modest ambitions to develop something priced at a low flat rate that focuses just on being a neutral, reasonable fare oracle — or if what makes it a trustworthy source is precisely the fact that the passenger could click “accept fare” and legitimately get a ride at that price.

How does this work? The drivers use the Uber app to find a customer and then when they pick up the customer they just turn off the Uber app? Wouldn’t the customer get charged through Uber anyways? Wouldn’t a couple of these be a huge red flag to Uber and they would disable the drivers account on their end?

I've done this. The driver cancels your ride and you pay cash.

Wouldn’t that stick out on Uber’s end? A driver that continuously accepts rides and then cancels them without completing a single one? They could just ban the driver cutting off his source of new clients.

There are other apps, though. The id system of the local apps are fairly lax, so the driver will just create another account. Besides, they don't always cancel rides. Sometimes they accept "manufactured" rides. E.g. once you've hailed a ride on the street normally, they might tell you to initiate a search through [ride-sharing-app] and then accept it (to maybe complete some quota that lowers their commission payable).

The vehicle is also an entity at such services and that “ID” (registration num) is anything but easily changeable. So it’s not that simple.

Beats me. Maybe they are too big to notice? Or don't care? I've done this more than once (and I don't take many Ubers). I end up paying less and the driver makes more money, so everyone is happy.

Reading the linked article:

There are two popular ways in which khep works: drivers either request customers to cancel a booked ride before it starts and pay them directly, or they woo passengers on the streets by offering the same price as shown on the app, noted Ananya Raihan, a researcher associated with Fairwork, a labor project by the Oxford Internet Institute and WZB Berlin Social Science Center.

I was in India earlier this year, and the usual scam there was:

1. The driver accepts the booking, but doesn't start driving

2. They call the customer and try to negotiate a higher price outside Uber

3. If the customer disagrees they do nothing, with the expectation the customer cancels (as you can't book another driver until you do). I'm guessing they have a handful of different accounts on different phones and just don't care if one gets banned.

In Mumbai there was usually no issue with Uber (but there you can also just take a tuk-tuk), but in smaller cities without other options this was common, especially on longer trips.

The thing is though the price for longer trips are ridiculously cheap. When I was there in January, Uber calculated the same price to travel across Mumbai (1 hour) as from Mumbai to Pune (3 hours, without stops, and then the driver needs to drive home). It was around 1500 INR or 15 USD - I'm surprised the later trip would even cover the cost of fuel.

Prior to the advent of Uber and its clones, there were and still are radio taxis. You call a number and a cab turns up and you pay by the meter or an agreed upon price. How did it work then? Ride hailing apps need to go back to same business model. Act as a marketplace, connect two parties let the figure our a fair price and just charge the service provider for providing them a platform. But then it won't be a sexy business for the VCs and it won't make anyone billionaire.

That would bring back the biggest issue taxis had, where, especially for airport rides, the taxis would fleece the customer by either just charging something crazy or taking an unnecessarily winding route.

The main value add of Uber etc is that they manage the trip so you can have a higher baseline of trust.

The medallion system was a significant barrier to entry. Uber used the carpooling loophole as the thin end of a large wedge to exploit regulatory arbitrage.

The 100% "independent contractor" driver workforce lets them skirt minimum wage laws, vehicle costs, unemployment costs, worker's compensation, Social Security tax, etc. They intentionally flood the market with drivers so customers only have to wait 5 min. Many drivers eventually learn that it's only profitable to drive during high demand times, within urban cores. Logging in during the work day, or in the suburbs simultaneously reduces revenue and increases mileage and time costs. Transportation networks have a fundamental trade off between quality of service and total area serviced.

Cellphones existed before, but not with the ability to install a non-carrier blessed app, with GPS functionality (again keeping wait times down).

>You call a number and a cab turns up and you pay by the meter or an agreed upon price. How did it work then?

Badly. I was scammed multiple times in different countries (I travel a lot), including my own. And there's a lot of uncertainty and stress involved (no guarantee you share a language with your driver, in case they need to ask any questions). And I hate talking over the phone.

As long as that's an option I'm staying with Uber.

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