Apple to pause advertising on X after Musk backs antisemitic post
axios.com
axios.com
“Jewish communties have been pushing . . . dialectical hatred against whites . . .”
That is not criticizing just “Jewish organizations.” It’s straightforward anti-semitism.
Yes.
>should they be shielded from criticism
No.
>should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular
No.
Frankly I don't really think these are challenging questions, but I also don't think the answers affect the (un)reasonableness of Musk's comment given the specific words of the thread he was replying to.
elmu was hating on jews, not on any organization
If you constantly criticize many organization/people affiliated with that religion - there's a chance you're the problem.
Musk did WAY WAY more than criticize just one jewish organization.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435
There is more nuance here than what the article is saying.
Nor would "nuance" have helped when the substance was him agreeing with bad stuff said about jews. Like, what would the nuance be? "Actually I believe the exact opposite, nuance yannow?"
He could have posted "the bad stuff you said about jews was wrong". But nope, he did the exact opposite. He agreed with the bad stuff said about jews. Nuff said.
It was just him agreeing. Period.
Any other post is a distraction. Other posts don't cancel out this one showing how he feels about jews.
He also simultaneously says the Jews should not be killed off.
It’s not really a whole lot of nuance, but I suppose it must be said that Musk is playing the both the victim and the pure white knight here. He wants to look sympathetic and yet strong.
I'd amend that to thinks there are Jews who hate. Obviously not every Jew hates whites, or is even the sort of leftist who typically spouts anti-white rhetoric and promotes destructive policies in Europe and the US.
But finding examples is not hard - at least until a few years ago, the ADL advocated for ethnonationalism for Israel and mass immigration for the US and Europe. Curious, no? The head of I think the SPLC keeps a tracker on his wall for when whites become a minority in the US.
There's also fun people like Noel Ignatiev who campaigned to "abolish the white race". Susan Sontag also had "amusing" opinions about the topic, if memory serves.
These people and organizations are obviously only some Jewish people, but they are prominent and organizations like the ADL do use their ethnic status as a shield from criticism.
That they exist is not up for dispute, a few searches will find all kinds of unsavoury stuff.
That's what his post said, and he had room within the character limit if he had anything else to say or clarifications to make before posting.
In response to a post that claimed Jewish communities support “hatred against whites,” Musk replied “You have said the actual truth.”
He is the one being called out. What’s he gonna say? That Apple hates South Africans?
You're focusing on whether his attacks would be morally legitimate, which is besides the point (that hasn't stopped Musk in the past). His base would find it convincing, because many on the right refuse to admit that it was antisemitic.
Pausing advertising for Twitter / X to clean up the mess on there and once everyone has calmed down for bit and is fed up with the coverage of Elon Musk 24/7 in their heads, Apple (and IBM) will continue to advertise once again, business as usual.
I'm yet to see the uproar by Apple fans of Apple's so-called 'ethics' in China whilst they're profiting and benefiting from forced labor, just like when Facebook was called out for profiting from a genocide.
Exactly. There is none.
Just like almost every single other company which is making consumer electronics? And I don't think the conditions in Foxconn factories making Apple stuff are below average working conditions wise compare to the rest of China.
If the US, believes China is so corrupt that it turns a blind eye to slavery then it should ban trade with that burgeoning slave state. We shouldn’t expect companies to do investigative work into actual crimes, nor make judgements about the morality of international trade.
Lately it seems that people no longer look to governments to do their job.
People ask for Uber to investigate rape cases, rather than the police.
People expect universities to determine guilt on felony cases, rather than the actual judicial system.
We should stop. We set up centralized government so we would end private fiefdoms. We cannot give private groups this sort of mandate. They don’t deserve it and cannot be trusted with it.
The former seems to be something we can get involved in, but the latter seems insurmountable.
If one can't comment on something without opening up one's comment to accusations of anti-Semitism (a problem most people on Twitter do not have), when one is the owner of Twitter, perhaps one could stand to comment less.
musk: "The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop."
whatsupfranks: "Yes, but this is not fair to say or truthful to say that ‘Jewish communities’ promote dialectical hatred towards white. Say what you want about the ADL, but don’t generalize the Jewish community."
musk: "You right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL"
musk: "And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind."
And Musk, if anyone, should know those visibility rules on the service he owns.
My gut reaction to claims like these, especially such severe ones, is always to be extremely suspicious about them. Especially if they are made about someone people want to see failing.
This is the era in which we should all re-calibrate our baloney sensors to be less benefit-of-the-doubt.
The benefit of the doubt is giving the fascists room to win.
p.s:
> I only see some allegations that link to other allegations.
Yeah, Twitter is pretty shit for discovery these days since Musk broke the way it works without being logged in under a Twitter account. I solved that problem by not caring; I quit Twitter years ago and I'm not going to re-up to workaround it getting worse.
It turns out I don't actually need to know everything everyone says on a topic. I can choose to ignore the signal on Twitter as "Too broken to care."
https://nitter.net/Yair_Rosenberg/status/1724910188195348828
Text of the Xeet, which includes screenshots:
"This is literally the conspiracy theory espoused by the white supremacist who massacred the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue. Musk approves."
edit: clarified
The ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people."
Just curious, did you actually RTFA that you're misquoting?
Here is one of his responses further down: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724934935943979269
sadly, this is a common occurrence for elmu, saying something horrible with a clear intention to troll people who disagree with horrible things, claiming his intentionally ambiguous post was misinterpreted, etc.
Those who give him the benefit of the doubt after him having done this so frequently are likely just fans of his engaging in sophistry.
musk: "The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel.
This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat.
It is not right and needs to stop."
whatsupfranks: "Yes, but this is not fair to say or truthful to say that ‘Jewish communities’ promote dialectical hatred towards white. Say what you want about the ADL, but don’t generalize the Jewish community."
musk: "You right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL"
musk: "And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind."
To me, it does not sound like Musk hates Jews, honestly don't know how anyone can take that away from this exchange.
Here is the post in question, I urge you to read what everyone is actually discussing:
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299#m
"You have said the actual truth" in response to a post railing on jews. What he said after that is irrelevant, because the only appropriate responses to posts railing on jews is flatly ignoring or condemning them. Agreeing is the literal opposite.
Musk has had a previous series of exchanges and controversies specifically with the ADL as well since they started a multi-brand advertising boycott immediately after he bought the company. That’s why he mentions it.
"You have said the actual truth" is what elmu said in response to a post railing on jews.
---> What he said after that, about the ADL or whatever, is irrelevant <---, because the only appropriate responses to posts railing on jews is flatly ignoring or condemning them. Agreeing is the literal opposite.
You can't literally agree with nazi shit and then try to walk it back claiming you meant the opposite.
Am I missing something? What’s the big controversy here?
From Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724933980276084909
Article from CNN talking about their definition of racism. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac...
The ADL's definition: "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people."
Also they have defined saying "it's okay to be white" as hateful language. https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/its-okay-be-white
There are a few other such examples, such as statements from ADL leadership.
The controversy is that people are calling this antisemitism
Is it possible that people are just making assumptions and/or reading too much into his tweets?
To me this seems like a storm in a teacup...
Today's a good day to no longer be a publicly-traded company under the symbol TWTR, because they'd be taking a bath on this news.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-17/lionsgate...
Is the ADL the de facto authority on determining what verbiage is a slight against Jewish people?
If that person had made a comment in the same format with the same tone about white people, I would feel the same way.
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299#m
>> Okay.
>> Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
>> I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much.
>> You want truth said to your face, there it is.
> You have said the actual truth.
> The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel.
> This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat.
>It is not right and needs to stop.
In positions like his, Musk should damn well know it too. It doesn't matter how unreasonable that is or isn't, it's clear how advertisers are going to react to something like this.
(That’s a honest question - I’m not sure, just had a thought I might be seeing an inconsistency. Really, I could be wrong here.)
“Semitic”, on its own, is a language group. But for some reason I can't possibly imagine, nobody ever says “Ethiopians are semites too”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)
No one is going to have a lot to sell this year, but people who would have bought a US EV when capacity normalizes are going to buy a Chinese EV because he has bothered to make this personal connection that overrides any abstract ethical concerns.
Usually such organizations focus mostly on "awareness" (manufactured consent, political propaganda) and fund raising ( guilt based extortions and publicity stunts / tax write off for corpos), most of their funds get eaten in administrative (good salaries) / fund raising expenses instead of helping whatever cause