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Comment by Karunamon | Hacker News Reader

So what are the Canadian copyright laws like? I was under the impression that you can't copyright facts.

Depends on how you interpret it. You are correct in that you can't coyright facts, but I'm sure the lawyers that Canada Post has hired will argue that since Canada Post created/authored the postal codes, it has ownership of that data and therefore can be copyrighted. The rest is just a combo of spin and waiting for the sued parties to be bled dry.

If a country that is more capitalist and copyright mad then we are has no issue providing postal data, that our crown corporation has their panties in a twist is a cruel joke. Just adds another reason why I'd never use Canada Post for anything anyways.

The other question is whether the postal code data falls under Crown Copyright (http://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/ccl/aboutCrownCopyright.h...). There all all kinds of restrictions and freedoms that come along with that.

Of course, it might not be the case that Canada Post data is under Crown Copyright, since it's a Crown corporation and not a government department. IANAL.

If that is the case, wouldn't sharing your postal address be considered a derivative work?

I have made no agreements with Canada Post to distribute my address, the right has only been assumed on my part. It could turn out to be a dangerous liability for all Canadians if it holds up.

The State of Oregon went through a similar situation in 2008. Justia.com was mirroring the Oregon Revised Statutes, and was served a cease & desist—not because the State claimed copyright over the laws themselves, but rather over the metadata such as indices, tables, line numbers, etc. In the end, the State agreed not to assert copyright over the laws (though that does not equal an admission that they do not have copyright). More: https://public.resource.org/oregon.gov/index.html#trail

While many jurisdictions hold the same, that 'facts' can't be subject to copyright, there is often a (lobbied for) grey area surrounding compilations of facts.

The usual suspects in these cases are recipes, Geodata and my personal favourite - Premier League Football fixtures. The latter is in the final stages of a European court challenge that is rightly claiming licensing such a simple set of data for thousands of pounds is absurd: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17218968

It would be an interesting case. I hope it goes to court but there's probably no chance that it will unless somebody takes it on pro bono. Is there any organization like the EFF in Canada?

There is no EFF equivalent in Canada.

But the CIPPIC is acting as counsel for these guys. They know what they are doing and are the closest I can see.

The EFF is an international foundation. They're only based in the US.

There's an update at the bottom of the linked Geocoder page that says the site is now being represented in federal court by the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic.

There's more info about CIPPIC at http://www.cippic.ca/en

I emailed the EFF, pointing at that blog-post. I hope they will at least provide some counseling to the guys.

I was under the impression that you can't copyright facts.

It depends.

In some places you can copyright a database of facts. In some places you cannot copyright a database of facts. In some places you need to do some 'creative act' to get copyright, some places use a 'sweat of the brow' rule (i.e. that you have expanded some effort, even if it's not creative). It gets coplicated.

> I was under the impression that you can't copyright facts.

I'm not sure. But I'd imagine that books like the Guinness book of world records is probably under copyright and its' just a collection of facts.

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