Show HN: I made a 30-day social anxiety challenge
socialanxietychallenge.com
socialanxietychallenge.com
The simple common sense solution is to maintain regular relationships, make it a habit of calling people, but that’s where my depression makes things rough.
It’s annoying, I am not saying my life is particularly difficult, especially compared to others, I have family, friends and a good career, but this stuff in my head does get annoying sometimes
It doesn’t always work but it definitely helps avoid that reset that you are referring to.
I did really well until Covid hit and now I feel like all my progress has been reset. It is just so much harder when you know it is something you have to maintain all your live or you will lose it instead of something you can just solve once and for all.
Plus, I have the paradoxical form for social anxiety where I am mostly nervous around close friends and the like while I don't really care about presenting to total strangers. So I can easily be read as cold and arrogant because the anxiety is less obvious. Plus maintaining relationships isn't exactly my strength.
I also wonder if the programming could be changed by some sort of conscious learning...
It was really eye-opening for me to do this for a while, as even just writing down social interactions both led to discovering while writing it down that I'd probably misread situations as less positive than they were and forced me to pay closer attention to things I didn't use to during interactions.
But the biggest help was really just driving home how rare negative interactions were, and how little they mattered, relative to the rest, and also how much less they matter when you actually notice more of the good ones.
I'm over simplifying, CBT has a bunch of other techniques as well.
The good news is that I noticed a "positive twist"--when I'm back to being anxious after a longer break from meeting people, my legs no longer shake! Which is a very measurable quantity, because I remember that a few years ago I had difficulties standing up at times..
In other words, I would say my experience is a sine wave, but trending up. Does this sound familiar to you, or do you observe a different function (so to speak) yourself?
It's a complex and annoying problem, because if I go to the GP, I might end up taking pills and I really don't want that. The alternative is to go to a phycologist but, as with restaurants, it's better to get a recommended one and I haven't got any where I live.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
So if you don't want to start with pills, and you don't have a good recommendation for a psychologist, maybe you could try with a book, a podcast or something like that? (And I don't necessarily mean "Feeling good", that's just the one I can recommend myself.)
Might be better than nothing in any case.
just as an example that may not even apply to you: if you are fundamentally afraid in new and unfamiliar social circumstances because you're fearing whatever type of reasonable or unreasonable/irrational outcome, then just exposing yourself to a series of specific social interaction types will likely not fix that root fear and only allow you to adapt to those specific circumstances.
what you would need to do instead is actively construct a list of situations that are as different as possible from each other, each having uncertainty for you in different ways, and then find ways to expose yourself to many of them as well as as many combinations of their good and bad outcomes in your head as possible, in an incremental way (because diving in naked / cold turkey strategy can not only be ineffective but even further traumatizing in exposure therapy).
I’ve started to view it as a muscle that can atrophy or get stronger.
Sometimes you see people taking this type of advice and throwing themselves into various uncomfortable situations, only to conclude that man, these situations sure are uncomfortable, I guess this must mean that I really am irredeemably socially awkward.
Realistically, uncomfortable situations are still going to be uncomfortable. You may expand your comfort zone through exposure, but when you're way outside of it, that never feels great.
I'd also suggest a therapist is a great way to work through anxiety issues. It's very difficult to debug your brain on your own. It's very hard to tell what's just part of the baseline human experience, and what's a problem that you could benefit from working on.
I have zero problem speaking before many people, being either serious or ridiculous; demonstrating the use of a condom on a cucumber would be fun and cause me no anxiety at all.
But I would rather rip off my arm than initiate talk with a random stranger at a party.
In fact my anxiety seems to be inversely proportional to the number of people I talk to.
This probably has a name? but if it does I don't know what it is.
And 'anywhere' includes a lot of very scary places.
My favourite new year was working behind the bar and chatting to all the partygoers (some regulars some not). I was supposed to be socialising once food was served, but instead I just poured drinks and chatted shit and it was _great_. I had a purpose and a place and it made it so easy.
I'd have lasted less than 15 minutes in the general area before going home
I tend to have the same experience. If I have a role or a function, or some character to play it's much easier. If it's just me being me, serving no special purpose, it's terrifying.
To their example of "sex ed", I've done that in front of my high school class. It didn't bother me at all. But I'd hesitate before initiating a conversation with any of my classmates individually even after having been in the same class as them for several years.
But also, for me at least, it's mostly approaching a stranger that causes me anxiety.
> This probably has a name? but if it does I don't know what it is.
In "pick up" circles it at least used to be described as approach anxiety. I read quite a bit of that kind of material while trying to get a handle on my own social anxiety, and while most of that material ranges from just shit to shit and misogynist, there are some useful tips to take from it.
The repeat exposure starting with something really small that the linked site suggests is one of them, and does work to an extent, but while 30 days might work for some, it might be way too little for others - people shouldn't be discouraged if it's too fast.
E.g. I spent many months dealing with mine. For weeks I'd go out and force myself to do really inane things like just asking people the time, or directions, which used to be sufficient to set off my anxiety - I'd go to great lengths to make do without having to ask someone for help.
Later I'd start trying to greet cashiers and bus drivers etc.. That was actually very interesting but ultimately I ended up choosing to dial it back.
The reason being that it worked too well. Turns out a whole lot of people in service jobs are really starved for attention, and give it to them and on one hand it likely be a very positive experience: After living the same place for (at that point) ~15 years or so, none of the bus drivers paid me any attention. A couple of weeks after I started that experiment it turned out one of them went to my gym and started talking to me regularly. I'd suddenly notice people rush to open a till for me where I was buying my lunch just because I'd started asking how they were and they suddenly remembered me. People would pour out their life stories.
But the thing is, I'm deeply introverted. It was nice to connect with some more people. I enjoy social contact to an extent. But it was also exhausting. And I realised that as much as I was happy as I felt my anxiety for starting a conversation dissipate, and enjoyed many of the conversations, I didn't want to engage in as many conversations as I got into, so I dialled it way back. (Notably, the anxiety dissipating did nothing to make it less tiring)
But it's nice to find it easier to when I do want to, and it has made me more conscious about making an effort to pay attention to people and be friendlier when I have the energy.
Compare this with 'anxiety' which would be closer to feeling actual fear at interacting with strangers. This is a very different situation than social energy conservation.
But otherwise I like the image!
At that time I couldn't really name the problem and I didn't know how to approach it, so I started searching for podcasts--self-help, psychology, you name it.
I found a podcast named "Feeling Good", co-hosted by dr. David Burns, author of a book with the same title. And without much exaggeration, it changed my emotional life (or at the very least: it started/kicked off the process of change).
Just in case it might help someone, I quickly search for "shame attacking exercises" (technical name for making yourself look stupid in front of people :)) on dr. Burn's page and found this:
https://feelinggood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/3a407-sha...
IMPORTANT: Theres a whole theory behind exposure (which shame attacking is) and if you do it incorrectly, it can make things worse (for instance, if someone starts laughing at you, your anxiety might worsen). So if you're in a rough place, or unsure if it's for you, better do it under therapist's supervision!
I had one too - I notice it start to come out when I am very tired/very overly caffeinated or stressed. I think it’s only me that notices just because I am hyper aware (which probably emphasises it more in my head).
I slow my speech down too as I found it was my brain running faster than I could talk and I didn’t know how to get the words out.
This does sound like survivorship bias, because you hear about the success stories where people successfully confront their issues and overcome them, not the people who fail miserably until they can no longer keep trying that approach. You also don't hear about people who fail and feel worse because the only things they've heard are success stories and that make them feel more broken.
Edit: perhaps using "survivorship bias" (it also originally said confirmation bias, it was early, my bad) is too strong of a suggestion here, it's just that people will react to different situations differently, not every approach will work for everyone and if nothing else, it's nice to remember that.
I went through that in university, decided to go to a tabletop game evening with complete strangers, had a breakdown, went back to the dorms and cried. Tried going to a few other hangouts, same outcome, feeling worse every single time, not better, which lead to lots of negative thoughts. I guess it might have been committing to doing too much, but the people were pretty chill and I still couldn't do it. Same with things like random small talk.
I guess I was lucky enough to have a group of friends that I opened up to and eventually got better at certain social settings - nowadays basically everything work related and things like giving presentations is a non-issue, where I feel like I have a "goal" and the terms for that social interaction are well understood, versus freeform interaction with strangers, that I've never handled well.
> After a few months and many more challenges, the therapist told him: "Do not, under any circumstance, accept isolation again. That will drive even a sociable person into introversion. Avoid it like the plague. There will be minor set backs, but we are now all equipped with the knowledge and techniques to overcome them - along with the memory that we've conquered it before." Every time we face the fear, and decide to go through with it anyway, we become a little bit stronger.
Some people get stronger, others get worse. I'm not saying that this isn't worth a shot, it probably is - but also consider seeing a professional who can advise on different things to try, identify patterns of thinking that could become an issue and how to address those, or possibly even certain medication should your brain chemistry need a little help to function better. Possibly even multiple healthcare professionals or different types of medication (if needed), until you find something that actually works for you.
Guess this is a bit of a vulnerable moment, but at the same time I don't entirely buy the expectation that exposure therapy of this sort will work for everyone and always, or that people should go in believing it will. The advice of gradually ramping up seems good, as does actually trying to do something (anything) about it, though.
> This does sound like confirmation bias, because you hear about the success stories where people successfully confront their issues and overcome them, not the people who fail miserably until they can no longer keep trying that approach. You also don't hear about people who fail and feel worse because the only things they've heard are success stories and that make them feel worse.
Well ... exposure therapy is an actual therapeutic technique that is used to successfully treat social anxiety and is usually one of the first methods tried, often as part of a CBT process, so let's not all jump on the "confirmation bias" band wagon. An anecdote is not data but an anecdote doesn't magically somehow prove the opposite.
As a fellow SAD sufferer, I'm trying not to be too harsh, but you clearly have a serious version of SAD, so applying your situation to this self-help site is a bit over the top. Yes, this may not work for a particular individual, but if you are having breakdowns you shouldn't be self managing your disorder anyway.
It seems like what we're really missing here is solid data about the success rate for the author's approach.
I hope the program has disclaimers and warnings about when to seek professional help.
I feel for the original commenter, they seem to have traumatized themselves pretty badly, but I just don’t see how their experience maps onto this website at all.
I'm just trying to suggest that consulting a professional is probably a good idea - since someone running a platform like this won't be able to help with all of the cases. I still think the challenge is an okay idea for most people who need a gentle push, but won't work for everyone.
Just putting that out there, possibly "survivorship bias" is too strong of a suggestion to use here, that's a fair point, my bad. It's not that the method itself is bad, just that people are different and specialists should help with identifying what works the best.
Edit: survivorship bias, not confirmation bias
I personally think everybody should go through at least one round of therapy, so I'm on board.
> It's not that the method itself is bad, just that people are different and specialists should help with identifying what works the best.
Unfortunately, not everyone has access to competent, affordable professionals in this area. Self help is often all that's available or all that some one is willing to do.
What you’re referring to is survivorship bias, not confirmation bias.
Thanks, edited, got those mixed up because it was early.
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See also: the most racist people are typically ones living in areas with low diversity. Once you meet your fears embodied, you realize they're not that scary after all.
This said, I'm sure some neurological configurations are simply unable to change, and can only derive more stress from being forced to. But surely they are a minuscule amount.