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Comment by Tagbert | Hacker News Reader

Both iMessage and Webkit have to accept requests from unknown sources that can contain a wide variety of content type. some other content types, like EPS are themselves programming languages that could contain infiltration scripts. That is why Apple has dropped EPS support. Similar situation can happen for other kinds of image and video content.

I don't know much about how iMessage communication is implemented but it does offer end to end encryption and supports richer interaction and content than plain SMS does. that was one of the reasons that Apple marked SMS clients with the green bubbles to indicate not to expect the same interaction with them. It was some little shits that turned that into an anti-status symbol.

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I can picture teens or younger acting snobby about phone choice. Not really clear why, if it’s a financial thing, as it’s been years since iPhones were priced at a premium relative to competitors. But well, they’re kids. However, I’ve experienced critical attitudes from adults well into their 40s when I had an Android phone. Personally I prefer iOS, but to judge someone based on their phone choice seems fairly ridiculous for an adult.

Phone/platform arguments are the worst, I do my best to avoid or extinguish them in whatever politik means is available. People can be such egotistical jerks about this foolishness.

I went through a phase like that and got over it early. As a kid, I thought that Amigas and then Linux were so far superior to Nintendo and Windows that I felt like I was at war with anyone using the other platforms. Later on I realized that this just made me miss out on the joy of using those systems and I would have done better to try to get all of them, rather than fixate on ones I thought were superior.

I just laugh because Signal is way better than all of this and—wouldn't ya know—the default is "blue bubbles". They are the ultimate blue bubble to me because its almost all yours and gives you way more control than anything else like iMessage and its all audited and open for examination (theoretically)

Sorry in which way is Signal better?

Signal can be better in all ways except the one that matters most. Not a single person I communicate with uses it. So it's useless.

You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse.

Its a boundary and we all need to get real better at understanding and being respectful thereto.

Only issue is if you want them more than they you, there's a bit of a dance to navigate . If the like Musk, send them to all his endorsementz. At the end of the day, it will have to be a negotiation at play and its more of a toughlove ultimatun purely for the area of which messenging platforms to engage with.

> You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse.

"It's not what we all already use."

There's exactly one person I know who uses Signal on a consistent basis. I don't turn on notifications for anything, so I don't see their messages on a consistent basis, but Signal offers me no incentive to use limited social credibility to try to encourage others to use its awkward affordances and non-native interface over either a native interface with reasonable security (iMessage) or a much better non-native interface without (Discord, Slack).

"There's no excuse not to use the one I like" is Linux-on-the-desktopping and is not responsive to how normal human beings actually operate in life and society. You might put picky conditions on your interactions, but most people meet others where they are--because network effects are real and humans matter more than technology.

If you actually use Signal and you have notifs you would not be saying any of this. Signal is beyond smooth in the UI/UX departments and the only difficulty is someone 1)install app 2) open app 3) enter number or username 4) basically done? That's literally every damn app. So tired of this FUD.

Has all the features of anything else without the bullshit and lack of credibillity/hazard to their own users.

If people respect themselves and their data enough, they will find a way. I've had zero problem with my closest friends cuz they trust I don't assign them random bullshit for shiggles. Maybe you need to reevaluate your relationships and the extent to which you place primacy on being able to communicate freely and without crap that works against you (or at least isnt built to work with you rather than rat you out about everything controversial you privately express)

Just don't get it man, maybe they're more the Telegram type. Nothing's more advanced or private than a Telegram for sure. Stop.

There was a point where I did try to use Signal in anger. It petered out almost immediately because nobody I talk to uses it except to turn on disappearing messages, shit-talk somebody else, and then go back to Slack or Discord. Because it does do disappearing messages well! But nobody I know wants to deal with it past that because contrary to your "it's just like everything else", its affordances are at best not distinguishing and certainly not good.

At some point, perhaps it will enter your consideration that talking about things like "people respect[ing] themselves and their data enough" is alienating to anybody who has a job and a mortgage and things they care about more than your minority choice of a messaging platform. Normal people don't care because normal people don't have governments, etc. in their threat models because normal people are boring. If you want to interest normal people, you have to be better than the BATNA--better than non-use. And saying "privacy" or "just get your friends to use it too" is a fail state.

Linux-on-the-desktop failed, too, when the only tool in the box was hectoring. (He said, from a Linux desktop.)

Sounds like you got everything figured out, thanks for chiming in =)

> Both iMessage and Webkit have to accept requests from unknown sources that can contain a wide variety of content type.

Lockdown mode rejects unknown sources, and doesn't autoplay content types.

So they don't have to any more, it's up to the user.

Its weird how much they deemphasize it and every time there's a zero-day, the solution is to upgrade. Let us add more to the pile while taking away a single point of entry.

Actuvate LockDown, and its all gone. Indefinitely cuz it blocks the original sin. And there's basicaly 0-downsides.

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