Hacker News Reader

Comment by mathieuh | Hacker News Reader

It must be quite an experience to talk to someone who unabashedly calls for apartheid. I'm more familiar in the west with people making racist or homophobic or whatever statements but then denying that they are themselves racist or homophobic. To see someone just lean into and say "we the Jews are the sovereigns in the state of Israel and in the Land of Israel. They have to accept it" is something else.

View on HN

And it's quite a thing that criticizing this gets you labeled as a racist, even though the thing you are criticizing is actual literal full blown racism.

Adjuration of land disputes between two similar tribes really shouldn’t open one up to accusations of racism by default.

It’s the explanation of why Israel ought to have the land that may or may not be racist. For example if someone says they have right to it by conquest, then that’s not a racist argument… it’s “just” barbaric.

Seems like calling for the genocide of Jews perhaps has in part lead to this.

When facing an existential crisis, people unite for security.

from the other side:

"in order to unify people, give them a common enemy"

Genocide for a genocide makes the world what?

Stupid.

Sure your existence is at threat.

Specially when your land is being taken, your houses are being bulldozed, your hospitals and schools bombed, and you deserve it because “you didn’t do anything to prevent becoming a human shield”, or should I say, because you are “an animal”.

Both sides feel the same, their existence is at risk.

Israeli authorities built iron dome to protect their citizens.

What did Hamas do to protect their existence, rockets, suicide attackers and hostage taking?

Struggling to find the equivalence.

I don’t think anyone supports Hamas. Even Palestinians don’t seem to truly support them, but are living in resignation as Hamas has done away with the democratic process.

To me it seems like Hamas is a puppet of foreign powers who want to destroy or harass Israel, not save Palestine. Hamas actions are designed to trigger an extreme response, but now that it’s here… most of the fallout is happening to people who don’t deserve it, don’t support Hamas, and simply don’t want to die.

Israel is currently digging a grave, but they are going to bury their reputation along with their enemies.

> I don’t think anyone supports Hamas. Even Palestinians don’t seem to truly support them

That's not true:

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-sh...:

> Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though Gazans who express this opinion of Hamas are fewer than the number of Gazans who have a positive view of Fatah (64%).

> But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents.

I think it’s not really fair to say “somewhat positive” is equivalent to supporting Hamas.

The site you source says in the first paragraph “ (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel.”

Also from the same or similar reports.

73% believed the Hamas government to be corrupt.

> https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-befo...

When asked how they would vote if presidential elections were held in Gaza and the ballot featured Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, and Marwan Barghouti, an imprisoned member of the central committee of Fatah, the party led by Abbas, only 24 percent of respondents said they would vote for Haniyeh

> https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-real...

It does not seem that Hamas is actually popular, however the Palestinian people are not living in a free democracy and are not being given other candidates to evaluate.

I think the key points are 1) your idea that "no one supports Hamas" is false, even taking the worst of those polls still shows significant minority support, and 2) Palestinian Islamic Jihad (and a West Bank offshoot of Hamas) are more popular than anyone in Gaza, and IIRC they're more militant than Hamas.

I think you’re being pedantic. This issue is not one that holds absolute, even if sometimes for the sake of rhetoric we use them.

I live in a small Canadian city and there are people who have been cheering and supporting not just the Palestinians but Hamas.

Hamas is not palestinian government, and whatever inhumane and condemnable actions they did does not justify the indiscriminate targeting of civilians.

While you’re trying to find equivalence, please don’t forget which people are being colonized and live in apartheid.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative...

Legislative majority doesn’t mean government.

Why are you trying to justify occupation?

One way or the other, I rather imagine that apartheid would still be a half-measure in the eyes of this person.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com