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Comment by thecosas | Hacker News Reader

> We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past, or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. It needs a fearless outlook and a free intelligence. It needs hope for the future, not looking back all the time towards a past that is dead, which we trust will be far surpassed by the future that our intelligence can create.

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> A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage […]

How much was knowledge, for its own sake, valued in the world view(s) in the Ancient Mediterranean societies? Certainly there were philosophers in Ancient Greece, which partly came over to Ancient Rome, but how mainstream was that compared to the pagan practices and outlooks? How much was knowledge about rituals to keep Ceres happy for grains (cereals) to grow versus a more mechanistic understanding? When and why did humans (in that part of the world) start thinking about the cosmos in a more 'logical' fashion?

How much was kindliness part of the world view(s) in the Ancient Mediterranean societies? Julius Caesar was celebrated for killing one million Gauls and taking a million more as slaves (exaggerated numbers, but the principle is the same). When and why did humans (at least in that part of the world) start thinking that being kind to each other would be a good thing?

IMHO, Russell owes much of his worldview and values to the Christianity that he rejects. These worldviews and values were by no means universal when Christian was young, or in Russell's time, or even now.

I'd argue that knowledge for its own sake was valued more in the ancient world than it is today. It was one of the ways the elites could show their superiority over the lower classes that had no time for such pursuits. In particular, the liberal arts tradition favored by Western elites over millennia can be traced back to formal education in ancient Greece and Rome.

Also, your mention of religious rituals reminded me of one of my favorite comments ever:

> Roman religion was purely about ritual and not at all about belief. Indeed, the Romans viewed belief as a matter of philosophy, not of religion. They would have viewed the Pledge of Allegiance as clearly religious, but the Nicene Creed as straddling the boundary, and Buddhism as clearly philosophical.

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/55197/what-is-th...

That attitude is still prevalent around the world, and it explains why many people are opposed to religious freedom. If religion is more about the society than individual belief, rejecting your religion means also rejecting your friends, family, and the entire society.

> Roman religion was purely about ritual and not at all about belief.

Tom Holland had a good lecture on this—the concept of religio:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeCTC_r4vMI

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio#Significance_in_Roman_...

He came across this as part of the research on his book Dominion:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_(Tom_Holland_book)

* Review: https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/

* Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYkP46aYQIs

(The author Tom Holland has a 'namespace clash' with the Spider-Man actor Tom Holland—hilarity often ensues. Use search terms carefully.)

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