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Comment by lytefm | Hacker News Reader

> As long as they perform the tasks of their jobs, why shouldn't they be "getting away with it"?

I'd say it depends a lot on the legal framework of employment contracts. I don't know how it is in the US, but in Germany you sign a contract with your employer stating „I will work X hours a week for you“. It's not about the output.

If you work less than X hours, you commit fraud and breach the contract. Your employer can then fire you for an „important cause” and typical legal protections don't apply. If your employer forces you to work more than X hours without compensating you appropriately, he breaches the contract and you can sue him for that.

So obviously, there have been a lot of legal cases like „Does changing your clothes count as working hours“, „Does driving to a client count as working hours“, „How do working hours need to be tracked“,...

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The US is very different. For salaried workers (the vast majority of good jobs), there isnt generally a stipulation of hours.

You get $X/year whether the company gives you so little work you're only working 20 hours a week, or if they give you so much that you're working 60 hours a week. Neither is forbidden by typical contracts.

Some salaried workers are supposed to be paid overtime if they work over 40 hours, but I don't think I've ever heard of it actually happening. Most salaried employees don't even have timecards.

Theres an underlying argument about whether it's okay for employees to try to only work 20 hours a week if it's okay for businesses to try to get them to work 60. Basically that we should either have something like Germany does that limits both sides, or both sides should be free to try to screw the other. A lot of people find it acceptable for companies to try to overwork people, but not acceptable for employees to slouch off.

This sounds horrible.

I'd rather sign up for a salary and time blocks during the day to be available for meetings, but my contribution is measured in output, not hours I logged.

If I take 40+ hours to do my work, that's on me.

In the US there are few scenarios where there is an employment contract. The vast majority of employment is "at will"; an employee can quit (or be terminated) at any time for any reason, so long as it is not expressly forbidden by law (e.g. firing someone for race, sexual orientation, age, etc). In particular, at-will employees are not guilty of breach of contract for working multiple jobs - there is no contract

However, there is typically a code of business conduct and other things along that line that an employee agrees to even if there isn't an explicit "contract" as there often is in Europe for example.

Yeah if it's more like "you work for me; I pay you as long as the results are good but will fire you at will" it's much easier to pull this off while maintaining a clear conscience.

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