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Comment by demarq | Hacker News Reader

Just to note here in some cultures multi general homes are the norm. IMHO these families seem to do better overall financially and socially.

For example, There's some one to take care of the elder members, and someone to take care of the kids.

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You're being downvoted, but this is true.

The American Way of moving out from your parents' home ASAP to be so-called "independent" at any and all costs is not the only (or even best) way.

Yup, I've always found it strange that American parents immediately kick out their children at the age of 18. The United States in general seems to practice an unhealthy amount of individualism.

Since sex is villanized in the US, parents have to kick their children out so they can have sex again.

Sounds like you just need thicker walls

A lot of the homes, town homes and apartments absolutely DO need thicker walls.

I know my neighbours have sex and I'm OK with this, but that doesn't mean I want to lay in bed and listen to them have it.

A friend of mine lived in Japan for a few years and got a polite letter from his neighbors asking him...to quiet it down.

I don't know anyone who was kicked out of their home at age 18 if that would have made them homeless, so I think you're painting with a broad brush. It definitely happens, but it's not as commonplace as you're making it out to be. I doubt there's much difference between the US and northern Europe on this issue.

> I don't know anyone who was kicked out of their home at age 18 if that would have made them homeless

it probably was before like that. Now days, young person starting on min wage not necessary can afford all life necessities.

>It definitely happens, but it's not as commonplace as you're making it out to be.

It's very, very commonplace for LGBTQ children in America. Their Christian parents kick them to the curb as soon as they possibly can and disown them. There's constant postings on Reddit about it, from these poor kids who don't know where to turn for help.

> There's constant postings on Reddit about it

I don't think reddit is a reliable source for pretty much anything, especially making country-wide generalizations

In my experience, it’s very commonplace for Christian parents in America to continue to love and support them after coming out.

I would be willing to bet you $10,000 that it is actually very, very uncommon.

Sure, I'll take that bet, subject to my own definition of "common".

We don’t, though. See the generational stats in the article. Still living with family at age 22 appears to be more common than not, back to and including the “Boomers”.

This is just unthinkable to me. It seems so cruel, too. I'm the child of an immigrant and the expectation was always: "live at home as long as you need, even if it's forever."

And especially once adult children have their own children, it seems unthinkable to have a baby and a recovering mother in the house without help from grandmother and aunts.

It goes all the way back to the Bible - teach a man to fish…. There’s no guarantee someone will always be able to support you, so it’s in your own interests to be able to support yourself.

>It goes all the way back to the Bible - teach a man to fish….

What Bible are you referring to? That is not in the Jewish/Christian Bible.

  I've always found it strange that American parents immediately kick out their children at the age of 18

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but that's an inaccurate, incredibly broad generalization. I would say that the historical impetus for kids moving out at 18 has been due to graduating from high school and "going off to college".

Doubtful. Most people did not go to college when this policy was more normal than it is today. When my father turned 18 in the early 60's he was told he had to leave home. The impetus was to get out in the world and start making money.

So I was told the same thing when I was young that when I turn 18 I would have to leave. It was stressful to be honest but overall I am not sure it is a bad thing. The old adage of a baby bird will never fly if it isn't kicked from the nest seems to best encapsulate this idea and how it was present and executed to me. While jarring and terrifying it is ultimately for their own benefit.

That does sound stressful. At least it seems like you've been able to retrospectively find some positive.

But I've literally never heard of kids being told they had to leave home at 18, unless it's the foster care system where kids "age out" (even then, laws have changed recently to extend this to 21).

As a parent, I cannot imagine telling my kids they have to leave, especially at a relatively very young age/maturity. Our kids leaving home comes up occasionally in conversations, most commonly perhaps with the typically exasperated parent retort of the genre of "well you can decide differently when you live on your own!" But even then, my kids have said things like "what if I don't want to live on my own?" And we always follow up with: "Then you can stay here as long as you want. This will always be your home."

I really don't feel like our attitude in this respect is different from most other parents we know. But of course families can be very different, and I'm now aware that your experience may be more common that I previously thought.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't think that is representative of most American families. Most of the time, it is the kid who wants to leave their parents house to be independent rather than the other way around.

I stayed in my house one year after I turned 18, and it was a huge mistake, especially since I was commuting almost 2 hours a day to university, but also...well, rent wasn't that high back then...I found a room for $215/month near UW in 1994.

These days I don't think that value proposition exists anymore.

From what I understand working poor and those on government assistance may not have a choice in keeping adult age children at home. The children might feel pressure to move out because of privacy and limited resources in the home. If they are working their income is included in calculating the amount of assistance received against the household.

There is also the societal pressure to find a place of your own for privacy.

Also if you’re in university you might only have guaranteed room and board first year. I know I didn’t have a choice after my sophomore year. No matter how much I protested I was required to find off campus housing.

It’s particularly strange when considering how ill-equipped most college-age people are to function as adults, with major gaps in knowledge being left by parents and schooling alike. American teens are rarely set up for success.

It’s way more economically efficient to combine households but I don’t quite get how people individuate in such a culture.

I moved out as soon as I could, and if I hadn’t I don’t think I would have had half the life experience. It’s just hard to do that without any privacy.

It’s not that my parents were tyrannical. It’s more like a chilling effect.

I think that was a product of the post war era (WW2) and is coming to an end. I hope my kids stay with me, I don't want to get too lonely.

It's also a relatively new concept in America.

> The American Way

Is this an American thing, or a northern European thing?

Not only that, but it's a relatively recent trend. Multi-generational living was the norm even in America until the mid 20th century. When are people going to realize that post WWII America was an aberration?

Name another country with an economy as dynamic as the US where the adults choose to stay with their parents. I’m aware this is the norm in other cultures yet it’s born out of necessity, rarely a choice. Where this is the norm usually young adult unemployment is in the double digits.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/dynamic

China is listed at the #2 dynamic economy and it is common there.

Singapore is listed at #6 and it is common there. Singapore is also substantially richer than the US.

Economic dynamism, however you would measure such a thing, is not the best explanation for this. Housing prices are. If housing is affordable, people tend to leave extended family situations to be in their own dwelling.

It's probably more about politics than culture in Singapore. Most people live in public housing, because open market housing is expensive. But the eligibility criteria for public housing make it difficult for young people to move out.

You can’t get a flat in Singapore until 35, 21 if married. Staying at home is not a choice, you’re forced to or be rich enough to buy a million dollar flat.

India is at #9 and it's very common here too. It's become even more so in the tech sector after remote work. Almost all of my single colleagues live with their parents. And even some of the married ones live with parents or in-laws.

I can understand the appeal - no rentals to pay, way lower cost of living if the parents live in a non-metropolitan area, and - if you have kids - you have someone to take care of them during your meetings.

> China is listed at the #2 dynamic economy and it is common there.

I don't think that is really true, at least for kids going to university. In fact, lots of kids virtually move out before they are even finished with high school because boarding schools are so much more common there. After they graduate from university, it is very very common for young adults to live in another city, visiting home maybe once or twice a year.

I was raised in the American South and grew up knowing it to be normal. That has changed as a norm though, and now when parents get old they move in with/near to whoever can take care of them best.

It is very common here in Gujarat, India. Most of them are employed and live in a joint family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Gujarat

I moved out at 19, and it was one of the happiest days in my life. Being able to pay rent on my own and not experience constant fights and verbal abuse is awesome.

Americans really tend to look at a lot of things from other cultures that they haven't experienced personally with rose tinted glasses. That's because people rarely talk about what they implicitly consider normal. For most people in my culture (Russian) everyday verbal and psychological abuse was and still is just norm of family life, and physical abuse is probably too for almost the majority.

And its a healthier attitude that existed even in America before the war.

However these kids aren't living in their mom's basement because the culture has changed but because the economic and social outlook is collapsing.

Our society, that is our neighbors, our cousins, our brothers, our children are being strangled.

Yeah there's definitely give and take and now is a great time to discuss such things and have that conversation. Especially as there's many factors involved here and it's not strictly the living at home vs not variable. Guaranteed counfounder for the outcomes you're looking at. But I will mention one "drawback", is I notice a tendency for people of these cultures to be less independent. Which is rather unsurprising just given the circumstances but also is related to the larger cultural aspect of tighter knit families (which has benefits and drawbacks too!). College and early post college is a big learning time for many Americans as they learn to be independent. But also in this time it is far less common to see parents move in with their children (long term or temporarily) to help with such things like adapting to your own place, new city, or starting a family, whereas such things are more common among the cultures you reference. Boy there's a lot to unpack here and I think we only scratched the surface. Definitely not saying one is better than the other but rather that there's a lot more at play here.

Yes, it works, if all of the family members are sane and respect boundaries.

Given this is just US-sourced, generation-on-generation data, and culturally, the US is pretty homogeneous (a few percent deviation). We're talking about 15 year windows so I wouldn't expect "culture" to change this fast, so I don't think your point applies.

The headline advertised a colossal shift in "norm" over just ~15 years.

Except that it's silly bait. Millennials are ~15y older than Gen Z. Of course more Zoomers are at their parents' home, they're practically still kids.

This is accounted for further down the page at "what they did at 34/22". The increase is actually very slight. Far less than the headline suggests and immediately understandable based on the house price and rent trends as percentage of income.

The headline, and the title here are bait.

I believe this is semi-normal in Italy and other southern European countries, among other places like Asia, Africa. Maybe not so much Northern European countries.

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