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Comment by sylware | Hacker News Reader

The core of the web only need basic HTML with closing tags (and properly shaped singleton element/tags) with the basic grammar (from the specs), utf8 encoded, no script.

It is enough for a bazillion of online services, that without requiring a beyond insanely complex and massive web engine from Big Tech. basic HTML forms can do wonders.

Of course, you can have a full blown Big Tech web app, but don't forget to have a interop portal with noscript/basic (x)html browsers to avoid, at least for critical online services, Big Tech lock-in and unreasonable exit cost.

That said, it may be a good idea to be able to drive the display or not of <table> rules with the default styling (css or hardcoded) from the 2D semantic HTML document attributes (I should check the hardcoded style of links and lynx for <table> rules).

(I am not talking about the abomination of the "semantic" web we had a decade ago)

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If you are only doing web as documents with links. As soon as you use any Forms and error back-and-forth you have to either patch over the web stardards, or annoy your users with sub-par functionality.

I don't agree, what you call "back-and-forth" is not negative, actually it appears more like "consistency" to me... and in the end, more than enough for a bazillions of online services and that at a ridicule technical cost compared to the one from Big Tech (not to mention all the corollary issues).

Of course, it is a trade-off, bells-and-whistles from rich GUIs are sexy, but the technical cost of such bells-and-whistles in a web context is grostesquely and absurdely unbalanced compared to what can be achieved with simple and consistent noscript/basic (x)html portals for any pertinent goal of a bazillions of online services.

A lot of web apps fetch data from the server prior to rendering; and the data that's fetched is often necessary for rendering. I suppose for things like a "control panel" that doesn't have much data on it, HTML Web Components might work fine; but a lot of use cases need non-stale server-supplied user data. I guess one other use case is caching stale data in local storage, and rendering that -- but even that requires JS.

Problem is, i dont see a page that does more then a blank text with simple logos to be user frendlly to regular non tech users. People care much more to what they see and the UX at the end, imagine handling all the use cases of a credit card register form before some payment without all the fancy schmancy we have today.

If you don't care about UI/UX then I agree. I do and even if I didn't the companies I work for absolutely do and the customers expect a certain level of UI/UX that is absolutely not possible with no script. I also work primarily on web apps which cannot be done without JS.

Well, it all depends on what the "client" "wants".

The problem often lies with the client tantrums.

I was more talking about critical online services which have a duty of interop with Small Tech and must not force users into Big Tech engines only, that to keep the door open to alternatives of reasonable "size", and at the same time to lower significantly exit costs.

But that's smashing open doors, most are aware of those issues here on HN. The real issue is implementation: it has to happen in a regulatory framework, laws dealing with discrimination, and my lawer has been looking into other legal leverages (yeah, I have an open conflict with my administration). The regulatory framework is here, but lobby-ied heavily by Big Tech, making it ineffective and pointless.

A bit like what they have in the US with the "utilities" which then have much more regulatory duties than "non utilities". You also have anti-trust stuff: dominant corpos are much more tied to regulatory constraints, that to let alternatives to be viable (well, that does not seems to work very well in the US). In my country, anti-trust ultra-aggressive regulations did wonders in the telecom industry.

You can still have a web app with a rich GUI, an anonymous simple and stable in time public HTTP-based middleware protocol (which allows to develop Big Tech independent rich GUIs), etc, until the core functions are provided to noscript/basic (x)html browsers (if one thing must work, it is this one).

No JS makes HATEOAS-like experience easy. Like for example right clicking an object you want to edit to open on a new page, edit it there, and click back and get it loaded as it was in less than a microsecond. Or opening 3 things to edit in different tabs, splitting them across the monitor and working with 4 copies of your app.

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