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Comment by gchamonlive | Hacker News Reader

Maybe this is why for the past few weeks I am receiving countless emails from major retailers like Casas Bahia or Americanas and even Magazine Luiza with purchase confirmation listing several smartphones and notebooks whose invoice bare my name and cpf.

I tried contacting every retailer. Only Magazine Luiza seem to have acknowledged the fraud and issued a warning but to no avail, as I am still receiving invoices from them.

I contacted the local police and issued a boletim de ocorrência (which I am not quite sure how to translate) that describes the problem and how I was unable to apply countermeasures.

I am expecting fallout from this. I am really anxious about this whole situation and how I am utterly powerless in protecting my identity.

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I've been on a similar situation once, this is what I did, and I think you're on the right path.

> I tried contacting every retailer. Try to reach out to the ombudsman (ouvidoria) and explain your case. Even if they don't actually solve the problem, you documented that you tried to friendly resolve the issue.

> I am expecting fallout from this.

Very worst case scenario, the retailers will send the fraudulent invoices to collection agencies and might report you to the credit bureaus. Don't ever pay any cent toward this fraudulent debt. Don't negotiate. The only option is the debt going away as it is fraudulent. It's their money that's on the hook and paying it shifts the responsibilities to you.

Once it hits the credit bureaus, as you already have a Boletim de Ocorrência, and proof of contacting the companies (protocol numbers + dates), i.e. documentation, sue them and ask for damages. It's a simple and common suit that both the credit bureaus and the retailers will want to settle. Make them pay for your time. They don't have any proof that it was your person that made those transactions.

> I am utterly powerless in protecting my identity.

Yeah, but the thing is, if the retailers, banks, credit cards, etc. really wanted to avoid fraud, every purchase/subscription would require the same level of protection as a real estate transaction. Everything signed, in-person meetings, upfront payments, banks, lawyers, notaries, cryptographic signatures (hey, we have e-CPF and nobody uses it!). But as you see, 100% fraud avoidance means friction, and no sane retail business likes friction. It's a business decision on their end. They accept risk so they can take your money easier.

If it’s a purchase using Credit Card, absolutely zero chance of going to collections. That’s not how it works. There’s no legal footing for collections and they are not in the habit of creating legal headaches for themselves.

If however it’s a credit purchase (personal loan, crediário, etc) then it might go to collections, then this advice works.

Online purchases though are 80% credit card and 15% Pix/Boleto so it’s unlikely they got a loan just to buy stuff. If they can get a loan, they’ll get the cash itself and run.

Edit: on a Credit Card transaction the burden of evidence is on the merchant. THEY have to prove it was you.

Tell this to MercadoPago. Once I did a chargeback on a fraudulent gift card purchase and months later they sent this debt to collections - they didn't report it to the credit agencies, though. It resolved pretty fast once I escalated the issue to the ombudsman.

There's no legal footing, but they will try.

This is really good information, thank you.

How does this fraud work? They buy the goods, and provide the seller some random individual's (your) identity?

I have no idea. There are, however, many official invoices (notas fiscais) being issue in my name. I believe there might also be fraudulent credit cards issued in my name that ate being used, or something like that, which would explain the physical retailers not questioning the purchase. That is why I am expecting fallout from this.

You can check any credit card issued on your name in Banco Central’s Registrato page[0]. Credit card, loans, etc.

However, HIGHLY unlikely they issue a card in your name and purchase stuff in your name online. If they have a card with them, they’ll go to physical stores and leave with the product with them immediately.

Typically (as I said above) they have purchased a stolen CC number online and are using it until it gets blocked or run out of balance/limit.

In any case, there’s zero fallout for you, the victim. These retailers are used to this (0,5% of transactions turn into fraud), so they’ll eventually figure out it’s fraud and they know it wasn’t you. They know you’re a victim too.

[0] https://registrato.bcb.gov.br/registrato/

Edit with the link

> I believe there might also be fraudulent credit cards issued in my name that ate being used

As tmcz26 said, it's very unlikely they issued a card on your name, but if that happened, contact the bank's ombudsman AND report it to the Central Bank, as they failed the KYC process.

Stolen ID from one person (ID, name, sometimes using the real person’s email and phone, sometimes creating fake yet similar emails like wildrhythms2@yahoo.com), someone else’s stole credit card number, and a drop address to receive and reship (sometimes deliver direct to the purchaser of the fraud item).

Typically the item is resold for half the price and it’s spoken for. It’s not like they buy to resell later. If they make the fraud they already have a buyer

Something similar happened to me once. You need a valid CPF number (something like a ssn) to create an account on most webshops in Brazil, so fraudsters will use stolen ones. They then proceed to purchase stuff with stolen CCs

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