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Comment by MrThoughtful | Hacker News Reader

Are there others like me, who never reserve a table at a restaurant?

I find it much more fun to meet friends at a restaurant without a reservation. Less obligation to follow through. If one of us has a last minute idea to do something else, we go with the flow. If none of the available tables are to our liking, we go with the flow and go elsewhere. If there is no available table, we go with the flow and go elsewhere. So much more serendipity and freedom.

One time, we arrived at a restaurant and were told that there is no available table. Since I just read in a book that you usually can bribe the waiter, I jumped over my shadow, said "Maybe we can wait a few minutes and see if something becomes available?" and put a €20 note into the hand of the waiter. Pointed at the best table at the window and said "That one would be perfect of course". 5 minutes later, we were sitting at the table at the window. I was a nerve wreck and felt like a king :)

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There are types of restaurants where reservations are essentially, if not literally—mandatory. And maybe this doesn't appeal to you, but I can't imagine you'll have many chances to dine at a three Michelin star restaurant with this kind of approach.

What makes you visit a Michelin star restaurant?

When the first startup I founded took off, I tried some of the more expensive restaurants in my town. I kinda liked the experience. But after a short while, it tapered off and I do not get any more out of it than from visiting a €10/meal restaurant now. So I almost never go to fancy restaurants these days. There is nothing that draws me there.

Really curious to hear what those restaurants give you that a cheap restaurant does not.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree that the appeal of fancy restaurants can wane over time. I've definitely been burned by the odd over-hyped spot or two. However, for me, a lot of these restaurants are like theater. They combine unique ingredients, creative preparations, exceptional service, and the chance to witness culinary professionals at the height of their profession. It's the immersive experience and the creativity behind the meal that keeps me drawn to them, even though I would probably prefer a cheaper, more familiar meal most nights.

Expensive restaurants, fancy restaurants, and 3-star Michelin restaurants are not the same things.

I've eaten at a few 3-star Michelin restaurants and the experience at each was worth living imho. 3-star means not only is the food world class, but the service is as well. I still remember fondly each thing I ate, and just as importantly, the interactions I had with the chefs throughout the evening.

It happens to be the case the excellent food and service does come at a price, so Michelin 3-star places tend to be expensive. Likewise people tend to dress up when they spend a lot so they tend to be "fancy", but those are things that happen as an artifact of the quality of experience they provide.

I've been to plenty of places that are expensive and very "meh", and I absolutely loathe "fancy" restaurants that pretend they are offering you some privileged experience (which is usually a laughable facsimile of the experience of real high-end dining).

I'll add that there are also diminishing returns: The experience of sitting at the counter of at Masa, with only two other couples why your personal chef hands you some of the best sushi in the world is incredible, but there are other omakase places in NYC that offer a nearly equally amazing experience (especially if you go on a quiet Tuesday night) for 1/3 the price, but I'm very glad I had that counter experience at Masa.

Michelin actually says service does not factor in to their star rating.

I’ve eaten across the stars and had the same misconception when we ate at 2-Star Tim Raue Wild in Berlin and were surprised at the poor service.

I did it once. Went to Alinea in Chicago. $400/person before wine pairing to give you a gist of the scale. At that level the experience transcends the food. It's all-encompassing. You don't worry about the valet, the restaurant has that covered. You don't worry about your coats; they take them for you. You don't get a jacket ticket.

It almost feels like the servers have ESP. They get you a new napkin, or fork before you even raise your finger (but not after you thought about asking). The food is timed perfectly. Once everyone finishes the course, the next course comes. If there's a conversation about the previous course, the next one miraculously waits until that conversation dies down.

The food is ordered in a way to activate taste buds. It's not just from "lighter fare" to "heavier fare." Salty/sweet, temperature play, texture play; it's all on the table and masterfully executed. There's introspective dishes served in one course, and fun dishes (like candied balloons) in the next.

The food itself is nutrient-complete, so while the portions are ostensibly small, you leave satisfied, and each course builds the hype. There's never a dish that ends up making the last feel "smaller."

You can sit for as long as you want, then when the group decides it's time to leave, the restaurant already has your jackets ready, the car is ready, and everything is in it's right spot. There's no mix ups.

The crispness of the experience made me realize food can be more than just a meal, but ultimately it's hard to define without trying it.

>Really curious to hear what those restaurants give you that a cheap restaurant does not.

... the food is objectively better?

... the ambiance is objectively superior?

... the staff is objectively superior?

No-one wants to eat a 14 course tasting menu every night, but I don't buy the idea that a $10 restaurant is going to be a comparable experience.

99% of people going to restaurants do not care about the ambience or over-the-top service.

I have absolutely had the experience of an inexpensive local seafood restaurant on Long Island making much better food than an upscale place in Manhattan, for example.

That's ok. Others do.

Especially with things like seafood and steak. Honestly, I can make a better steak than any restaurant at home. I can shuck oysters and have fun. And as you said, with seafood in particular, little places in good locations often have better food!

But the experience of the fancy restaurant has it's value as well.

Just because it's upscale doesn't mean it's good, and just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's bad, but there is typically a very strong correlation.

In upscale places that are bad go out of business, unless their primary means of gathering business isn't food, but instead is location/proximity to a source of near captive audiences.

> 99% of people […]

Sure, McDonalds has sold like, a trillion hamburgers and a local started restaurant does like 100 covers a night. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t packed and that the reservations don’t go instantly, as soon as they’re available.

>99% of people going to restaurants do not care about the ambience or over-the-top service.

99% of people might not think think the difference is worth it; but I just don't accept the idea that 99% of people wouldn't think that the service and ambiance at Per Se is better than Olive Garden.

I would replace "objectively" with "typically".

Michelin stars mean that a restaurant has been vetted by presumed skilled experts.

This means that you're going to have on average a better experience, but that you'll pay more for the experience you get (since they're in more demand). Finding a restaurant of similar quality without the stars will take more digging, but will likely give you better value.

Just to adding on, when you get into Michelin star quality, the ingredients out of this world.

I'm not big into the show of it all, and I really enjoy cooking myself, but I can't even come close to the quality on a single dish they produced, much less the 5 - 10 small dishes you are typically presented. If you love food like I do, you'll generally love the food experience on presentation and taste alone. The head chefs are typically artists when it comes to this stuff, they spend a lot of time and effort coming up with both unique and enjoyable dishes. It is not catered in any way to mass production and speed of service like you see in the typical restaurant.

This said, if you don't enjoy food, or you don't enjoy special experiences you're not going to get much out of it.

https://www.fearlesscaptivations.com/pasta-bar-austin/ is an example of someones experience of the last place like this I ate at.

I always make a reservation, because it really sucks to show up and not be able to be seated in time to eat while still doing something else that evening.

There are a few restaurants in my city that don't take reservations at all. I've given up on going to them because the wait for a table is always at least an hour long, and you can't plan any other activities around it.

That doesn't fly as much as it used to. Our favorite places where I live mostly require a reservation; they literally stay pretty well booked. We know the owners (two joints, same ownership), and ONCE or TWICE we called him for help on a special occasion. Sometimes he can help. But that's not a card you want to play often (not in the least b/c, if you get a table because you're friends with the owner, my personal ethics dictate a fairly significant spend).

Good tip about bribing the host, never tried that

I would say you are missing out on very good experiences by doing noncommittal things with noncommittal friends

That could very well be.

On the other hand, I feel like others are missing out on those moments where one of my friends calls and says "Hey I'm in this and that part of the city and I'm hungry. What do you do?". And I'm like "I'm sitting in a cafe in that other part, drinking coffee, tinkering on my laptop. How about we meet in 30 minutes in this and that restaurant?". And they are like "Deal. I also have my laptop with me. Have you seen the new OpenAI API? I just cobbled something together with it that I would like to show you.".

Most people seem too entangled in job and family for this.

people that reserve at restaurants also do what you just described

this has nothing to do with the crowd that is entangled in job and family?

Please don't whip out your laptop in a restaurant.

Restaurants are great places of adventure where very different types of people come together. Please don't harm these oasis of diversity by telling people what to do :) It would make the world such a boring place.

I think visiting restaurants to meet with interesting people is one of the great joys in life. And when interesting people meet, there almost always comes up something to try out or look up online.

It feels we are so near to the singularity, that every moment is like a wild ride.

I meet people in restaurants a couple of days per week. Only once did a waiter complain about the laptop on the table. I just never went to that restaurant again.

I don’t think your experience is invalid, you are just missing out on other experiences that accomplish the same things you like about your disruptive laptop dependent approach for the sake of AI and machines when the humans have so much infrastructure catering exclusively to us… behind reservations

Do you have trouble parsing social situations by any chance?

One waiter complained. Many, many more complained about you without bringing it up, and you likely disturbed others who were eating as well.

Find meaning outside a laptop. It exists.

That's what Starbucks used to be for, before they removed the tables and chairs.

In New York, reservations are often necessary. A lot of restaurants don't do walk-ins.

Nah, New York is a place where you generally don't need a reservation. If you want to go to a specific place, especially one you just read about, sure. If you just want dinner, it's hard to walk a few blocks in any direction without finding a restaurant with an open table though.

You're also discounting the many fine places, particularly downtown, that explicitly don't take reservations.

> Are there others like me, who never reserve a table at a restaurant?

Yeah, I don't really like needing a reservation or appointment for everything; for specific events like birthdays or graduations it's probably good to make one, though.

I had a friend that tried that with $100 and we never got a seat. He also never got his money back.

Most people are like you and me who would never even dream of going anywhere where a reservation is required. Those folks that do either have a hobby or too much time and money, which is equally rare and equally annoying

Personally, like the vast majority of us, I think anyone who calls in ahead to a restaurant is totally lame and most likely an NPC, but it does depend on where you are and the current culture around you

Then I guess I am lame.

Most of the time I am meeting friends to hang-out and we will spontaneously find somewhere to eat. I really enjoy that.

Occasionally I am hanging out with friends from out-of-town, or friends with kids who don't get out as often. Then it's convenient to have somewhere booked so we don't end up having to eat at a not-so-great place and 'spoil' their visit, or their one evening seeing friends that month.

Sometimes I want to hang out with a big group. Try finding a place which can spontaneously accommodate twelve people.

Well, you think I’m lame too, so don’t get offended. As I said, the opinion depends on the culture around you.

Some people have the time and money to plan ahead, some don’t. It’s really all very random

> I think anyone who calls in ahead to a restaurant is totally lame and most likely an NPC

Calling somebody an NPC is dehumanizing. You don't have to agree eith their values, but please don't disrespect their autonomy.

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