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Comment by reddalo | Hacker News Reader

What's left now, for Windows users? I think the only solution is Thunderbird

Stop using Windows. It is foolish to assume that any data on a Windows machine can stay out of the Microsoft cloud.

E.g. Microsoft Edge on first launch can import bookmarks+stored passwords from Firefox (AFAIK without any user interaction, unless I clicked without thinking), and it also defaults to uploading this data to the Microsoft cloud (unless you're using a local account?).

Yep, I finally made the cut after they by default hijack your filesystem to onedrive. They can literally delete offline files.

I was utterly shocked to find Linux Desktop has more uptime than Windows. Windows forced updates caused so many issues dealing with autosaves, I was spending like 5-10 minutes per day reopening all my programs for work.

Those random linux annoyances you need the terminal for? I had like 1 or 2 of them during month 1, solved faster than a single Forced Windows Reboot. Fedora been flawless 5 months later.

The only terminal work I do is opening ports for my kid's games. It really is the year of the Linux Desktop. Its utterly shocking to me I'm saying it, I was a hater for so long.

> Those random linux annoyances you need the terminal for?

Generally, if you want hardware that you don't have to fight, the only option is to buy computers with Linux preinstalled, with support. Modern computers are sufficiently complicated that they really only can support one OS. And, for consumer hardware, they even half-ass that.

It was that Fedora didn't have some video codec that reddit used.

I googled it, it was like copypasting 2 or 3 commands, then I could watch reddit videos.

I can't remember the other bug, it might have been an ID10T error.

Can't even blame Linux for that, I have to install way more stuff to make Windows work out of the box. Fedora weirdly has lots of stuff already installed.

That's not accurate. Most hardware works out of the box with zero config on all the major distros. There are always some machines with unsupported hardware of course, but it's more the exception than the rule nowadays. This is especially true if your hardware is at least a year old.

I would say that "Generally", it's not a thing you need to worry about. If something isn't working, it's probably a configuration issue on your side. The easiest way to avoid that is to pick an immutable distro like Fedora Silverblue, Suse MicroOS, and soon Ubuntu Core Desktop. Combine that with Flatpaks, and you pretty much never have to touch a terminal or worry about a broken system.

You can try to find the computer you want to buy over here [1], and see if there is any hardware incompatibility issues.

Generally, at this point, most hardware lines are supported. If there are problems, they are with new state of the art GPUs, some weird new modems or fingerprint readers. Generally, your mom won't be requiring those. If you are buying for yourself, just pre-check if there are linux drivers for each of these.

[1] https://linux-hardware.org/?view=computers

I couldn't believe how much better the GUI had come in years as well. Around 2020 i tried a new work laptop with Ubuntu and was blown away. Without any fuss google meet worked in FIREFOX with full webcam audio support on a dell xps. Just to compare I went to the ms teams site, and of course it couldn't even get off the ground with firefox. "your browser isn't supported." it was obvious MS was/is crippling it artificially, and then it dawned on me, i just had my year of the linux desktop.

I use Windows for work because that's what corporate likes. But at home I've been running only Linux on laptops and desktops since 2006. In 2020, I switched my mom's home computer to linux. It's been a joy.

Why does anyone use Windows at home anymore? I guess gaming is still an issue?

> I guess gaming is still an issue?

Something of an understatement

I can get that. FWIW I have been maintaining a 86Box image of Windows 95 with Windows Entertainment Pack (including Jezzball and Skifree), the Arcade set (Asteroid, Centipede, Missile Command, Tempest, and the tank one), Pinball, and some other stuff. Those are a bit dated at this point. I haven't played Descent II in years.

>Stop using Windows.

Er....no? Though i do spend an inordinate amount of time closing as many holes as possible. Unfortunately, windows is ok. The telemetry, ands and other bullshit is embarrassing but the software i run is on windows. Tried Linux, various ones, but I spent more time messing about that (software didn't cut it, drivers were an arse for audio, graphic setup was strange) it was a relief to go back. Linux reminds me of w3.1 and all that memory allocation bollocks just to run a game. I choose my lazy acceptance, combined with 'as much as I can do to protect myself', over beating my head over a whole operating system that doesn't cut it for what i require. I won't entertain macs as i trust apple even less (for being closed).

Some people can't stop using Windows yet. Switching to Thunderbird is a good step toward being able to stop using Windows.

> I think the only solution is Thunderbird

Some while ago, there was a bit of backlash over their re-design, but after actually using the more recent versions, I have to say that they did a good job - you can toggle the display density of the UI elements and it's still a good mail client with reasonable performance and usability.

I can even sign e-mails with OpenPGP and did you know that it also has a built in RSS feed reader (a bit clunky, but having news sites/blogs be a folder that's right next to my e-mail accounts works brilliantly well)? In addition, I have it both on my Windows and Linux machines, surprisingly consistent across the board.

Honestly, I couldn't be happier. Maybe also Roundcube hosted on VPSes for my own development mail servers when I don't feel like adding bunches of accounts to Thunderbird, but it's really nice that there's software like this out there in the first place!

My favorite RSS reader is Feedbro in Firefox, maybe on the minimal side but exactly what I need.

Claws Mail: powerful and lightning fast and 100% multi platform native code. (MacOS too but has to be built or downloaded elsewhere)

https://www.claws-mail.org/downloads.php

There's a small command line tool around (can't recall the name, sorry) to convert message bases and contacts from Outlook format so that they can be imported into Claws Mail. I once did that at a workplace where they were having all sort of problems with Outlook and a fairly big mail archive and saw people dropping their jaws when looking at the difference in search speed. Give it a try.

Claws is GTK+, so it's not native.

Actually, on Windows GTK uses native widgets.

No, using DrawFrameControl et al does not make a widget native.

What is native these days? They seem to have a new UI toolkit every 2 years.

The only native controls on Windows are the classic Win16/Win32 controls, accept no substitutes (not even that new-fangled comctl32 thing).

Native code, not native UI (whatever that means, these days)

Is Outlook even native these days?

Cloud Native, the only type of native that matters these days ;-)

If, like many of us, you work in an org that refuses to authorize Thunderbird or anything else for IMAP+Oauth2 to Exchange Online then there are no other solutions. Outlook is e-mail, e-mail is Outlook.

You don’t have to use that for your private email though.

This is what is so annoying with companies these days. Microsoft has them by the #%!!$ and they’ll continue taking all the productivity loss and other risks just so someone can check a box and say “We trust in Microsoft to manage this, and we’re off the hook.”

There are solutions like the Owl extension for Thunderbird, but that’s for the adventurous ones who want to take risks.

The online school I’m attending is like this with its email. My options are to run the Outlook for Mac desktop app (which oddly seems to be a different beast than “new” Outlook on Windows) or keep Outlook webmail open in a tab. Not even Apple Mail via its Exchange support is permitted.

I ultimately landed on keeping the desktop app open to reduce browser clutter and for the icon notification badge so I don’t miss any important emails.

I use eM Client and I recommend it. It works super good, no issues with GMail calendar, Exchange server or any other weird quirks like Thunderberd (used to) have.

The disadvantages are that its paid (one time payment) and Windows only (no linux version).

PuTTY + Mutt? :)

I’ve done myself over the years. :)

Windows now directly offers OpenSSH and a decent modern terminal app, so while PuTTY still works it’s no longer necessary for accessing mutt over SSH from Windows. Also with WSL you can also run mutt locally on Windows within a userland Linux distro like Ubuntu or Debian.

This is honeslty my favourite thing about windows in recent years. Now that you can just fire up native windows terminal and type 'ssh user@host.com' it has saved me so much time, and probably downloads for putty have dropped considerably as well.

That’s actually precisely what I use. :)

I switched to Mailspring a year or two ago and am very happy about it. It's based on electron so here be dragons, but does the job quite well. It's simple and basic and no fuss while not being an eyesore. Basically, a clone of the Mail app on macOS.

I've tried to use Mailspring a couple of times on Linux but apparently server syncing is still broken after 5+ years[0]. Until it works reliably I'm stuck with Thunderbird.

[0] https://community.getmailspring.com/t/disappearing-emails-de...

There is also The Bat!: https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/

> What's left now, for Windows users? I think the only solution is Thunderbird

Microsoft OS is reading your keyboard. If they did it once, they will do it again.

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