Ask HN: Ways to make side income as a SWE? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Ways to make side income as a SWE?

65 pointsdinobones89 comments

* Assuming your company allows.

I want to earn some side income. Are there any platforms that pay reasonable amounts for short-term contract or gig work for SWEs?

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In 2018 I was working low effort job at a insurance/finance type company that was having layoffs. So I started interviewing for a new job, and landed a remote job and took it. I didn't quit my old job. So I worked two jobs for about a year and went and got a third remote job (these were software dev jobs, w2). I did this through part of the pandemic. Working three jobs was doable when it was just me at home, but with the family home during lockdown it was too stressful so I quit two. I made A LOT of money during this time. But if I had it to do over, I'd focus on getting one high paying FAANG job instead.

Apparently this became common at some point, "over employment" is a thing now, with a subreddit and everything.

Unfortunately, the overemployment subreddit is mostly just fan fiction, but for a time, it was a reality for some, and for a lucky few, still is.

Maybe the subreddit is fanfic but the phenomenon itself is definitely not - I’ve been told by multiple founders they had experienced it with remote employees.

I know someone who had 2 FT remote engineering jobs for a bit last year. It only lasted about 4 months before the plate-spinning got to be too much and he ended up with just one of the jobs. And then because his performance had been kind of spotty while juggling the two jobs his review wasn't great and he lost that one too.

This is the more common outcome than the successful ones, but people are often embarrassed to share so they are much less reported.

I've seen great engineers end up falling flat on their ass because of trying to do this. The majority of people just don't have the ability/capacity to be good at two jobs, and once people notice that you're meh or worse, it's very difficult to change that. Most people are better off just kicking ass at one job, than being acceptable at two.

Meh is fine. I’m better off doing Mechanical Turk than trying to go above meh at an employers.

Now I wonder about the negative scenarios. E.g. did someone use their personal github account to join two organizations. Or was there an employee transfer from one company to the other. The possibilities are endless.

What about one senior engineer working as senior for a few years in company X and then joining in parallel company Y but working as non-senior (it’s easy to hide working experience in your cv). Doesn’t sound that stressful.

I know someone who did it successfully - unfortunately one of the company is failing though so he'll have to come back in our income bracket

I think it's a sad reflection of company culture of this time if you can put in 1hr of work per day and coast along.

We really got soft with all this bs. Which is why I don't have employees, just contractors I paid (quite a bit) to deliver results - not butts in seats or doing "anti-harassment training"

Larger companies tend to be bogged down with dependencies that can easily leave you waiting on someone, especially if you have no incentive to press them to move quickly.

There’s no reason to care as an employee. I get paid whether or not our customers are upset (not long term, but long enough for me).

I'm sorry, I just have to say it. Over-employment is unethical and SW devs just shouldn't do it. It's ethical to have multiple 1099 or corporate clients; just bite the bullet and go into business for yourself.

I don't care about arguments regarding the unethical things employers do to employees. It's wrong, period.

edit: what a trash heap of replies.

> Over-employment is unethical

If the dev is actually not performing/delivering. If there's no complaints, and they are on salary (not hourly), what exactly is the ethical problem here?

Most people consider most deception unethical. And most people would consider it unethical to exploiting the difficulty of quantifying the work they do, colleagues' misplaced trust in your estimates of how long it would take to fix and them ultimately not complaining about your performance levels mainly because they mistakenly believe you're actually trying your best and will get better in a few months time... to earn twice as much as everyone else.

For the avoidance of doubt I thought there was absolutely nothing unethical about my coworker who was approached about a job in a different timezone and told everyone he'd taken it but was happy to work before 5pm.

Can you make a compelling argument? Just saying it’s wrong is not an argument.

If employers don’t like it then they should pay by the hour for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I don't know about you, but my contract states I'm supposed to work X hours and includes a passage on how overtime is handled. The rest is common sense: That an additional, equivalent job can't possibly be done well.

Your employer pays for your (mental, in this case) energy.

I know accountants who work between 80 and 100 hours a week for 3 months every year. Is it miserable? Yes. Is it impossible to work that number of hours and turn out quality work? I don't think so.

For the rest of us, we call ethics problems “opportunities.”

It's wrong if it's a breach of contract.

Nothing unethical to having multiple jobs. Plenty of poor people outside of tech do it

A slave must not secretly sell his services without giving his master a cut, therefore masters consider this unethical.

Unethical according to your system of ethics. I never claimed that was part of my ethical system.

Unless you’re religious or something and believe in a global definition of ethics that applies to everyone, there’s no real point in telling everyone what’s unethical. Is it unethical to you? Great! Then you don’t do it. I will do what I want.

lol, this argument could be used to justify literally any act. Our society does have a shared system of ethics, it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

> Our society does have a shared system of ethics

No, it isn't. Our society is made up of many countries, something Americans often forget. And fortunately, we don't have everything in common, otherwise it would be a nightmare.

I was contemplating this some time ago and realized my contract is to commit 8 hours a day to my customer. I personally could not mentally carry the weight of not delivering what I agreed and since I have family I can't do 2x8 hours a day. So your opinion makes sense to me. I personally know people who have 2+ remote jobs and I keep hearing they actually half do them and they can only do this because the work place does not seem to care.

My contracts don't have any stipulations about outside work and don't require me to commit to a certain number of hours.

What's the meaningful ethical difference between an individual with multiple W2 income streams, and a sole prop with multiple 1099s?

> what a trash heap of replies

You should expect exactly that when using phrases like “it’s wrong, period”. There are not many things in this world that are wrong, period. Over employment is not one of them, period.

I’m doing it and most friends were doing it. Layoffs have taken a lot down to just one job though.

I’m curious, how does an over employed person update their resume or their LinkedIn profile. I guess they pick just one position and don’t mention the other(s). Still, this could lead to some interesting scenarios.

They usually don’t update it and that’s a telltale sign

Depending on your experience level, I would fully recommend https://codementor.io

You will need to qualify (there's a couple small tests and I think a short interview) but then you'll be able to one-on-one live code with someone, there are full "freelance projects" available, code reviews, etc. You set your hourly rate (by the 15 minute interval) and the free lance ones are lump sum ($100's - $1000's)

One downside: it has gotten a bit more popular over the years, so if you want to be selected for a gig you'll need to be quick and/or convincing. It's not nearly as bad as something like fiverr or freelancer but I have a tough time getting in on requests even with a 5-star rating (good ones fill up with many offers quickly).

The competition is similar to Upwork and other freelancing websites. The few times I bid for a mentorship, it was me and a dozen other guys.. I've given up on websites like these and focus instead on local connections.

I've tried to build webapps, websites with content, lots of other things, but I always ended up demotivated by the lack of feedback and interaction. The internet is a very crowded place and there's too much competition. You're either very very good, or lucky (or know how to play the algorithm's games).

My realization is that one should either find a (quite) smaller niche, or it's better to focus in the people around you, where you can engage personally (i.e., in person or email/phone/chat/whatever).

Spend the time it takes for you to hunt and kill meaningful contract work looking for a better paying F/T job, then use your nights for hobbies, cooking, exercise and socialization like (lowercase g)od intended.

what if you desire 7 figure income? very few full time jobs in this field would cut it. Only options are to either give up dreams and accept mediocrity, start a successful side business, or possibly work 100 hour weeks stacking multiple full time jobs

Very few side businesses would cut it as well.

I wonder if growing a successful 7 figure income is easier than becoming a 7 figure exec.

I think there are more 1M per year small businesses than execs making 1M in salary

Besides, by being a 1M small business you're solving problems for society, by being a 1M per year top exec you're probably at the level you're bribing politicians, brainwashing people with ads and woke marketing and generally making the world a worse place.

Looking at the startup world, I would not be as confident about "solving problems for society", lol.

If you want 7 figures you need to learn how to grow it from 5. Either start your own business (which would come from this side hustle) or invest every penny you earn across a diverse portfolio and do that for a couple years. You may get lucky and end up with 7 figures. If you just saved your money, over time, you will absolutely have 7 figures.

yes but making 7 figures annually is quite a bit different than simply having a 7 figure total net worth. The latter is achievable by most frugal middle class Americans over the course of a career, often much shorter. The former is usually not possible through a day job over a normal career length

With enough income sources it is. All while being a SWE. Passive income is the way to 7 figures annually.

You are right that 7 figures annually is different than just 7 figure net worth. However, if you have a 7 figure net worth, you could probably get to 7 figures annually relatively easily.

> However, if you have a 7 figure net worth, you could probably get to 7 figures annually relatively easily.

something to reasonably expect, might be be a 4% real return (i.e. net of inflation). that's achievable with discipline and no skill through low fee passive index investment. luck of avoiding catastrophes would also help.

at 4% real return, assuming you paid zero tax, your wealth doubles roughly once every 19 years. To throw off a 7 figure income at 4% real return you need $25m invested. That's 4.6 doublings of your initial $1m, so after 80-something years you're across the line. better start early.

Another way to accelerate the journey is to cheat and convert your money into a currency that is extremely devalued, then your income can have many additional figures even if your wealth is unchanged.

yea if you want to go it the investing route, you need much better returns than 4% real. Personally I've been beating the market with algorithmic trading (https://grizzlybulls.com/models/vix-ta-macro-mp-extreme) but it's still a long game unless you start with millions

“How to make $1M, start with $10M” is something I would hear vineyards say.

>7 figure income?

Any director at FAANG will make that much.

I don't think this is a fair take. Anyone making less than seven figures is not necessarily "Accepting Mediocrity" but may have other priorities. Different priorities are not necessarily worse just different.

> what if you desire 7 figure income?

Then your priorities are probably fucked. Assuming this isn't just a devil's advocate hypothetical.

It's really hard to find good contracts. You have to know people building stuff that understand the value that you're providing.

With platforms like Upwork it's really hard to compete with lower-cost devs.

I have a client that I'm trying to fire right now, who, rather than hire me for a longer-term contract, has hired an offshore team of interns that are really struggling. What would have been a long weekend project for me has stretched out into 3 months for them.

I've had clients try to save money by off-shoring, and 5 out of 6 times it actually ended up more expensive and super late. If you can find the rare gem in a low-cost area then it can be a good strategy, but the odds are very much against you.

If you are just after making money, these are the best in terms of (hours spent)/(money earned)

1. Job hop into higher salary. For any level, you essentially spend time up front to get the job, then get more money while spending the same time working.

2. Get into real estate. Chances are you make enough money to be able to afford multiple properties, and you can start doing airbnb or straight rentals and earn passive side income without much effort.

Otherwise, if you want to code, the more enjoyable way to make money is to pursue something that you already like doing, so it doesn't feel like work, and monetize it.

I've done part time contract gigs on nights and weekends over the years. Latest rate was $95 / hr, did ~15 hrs / week.

I don't really have too much advice since I got lucky and found some great people to work with who provided a chill stream of work when I needed it. But what I did was:

- Contact a lot of small tech companies who had open roles

- Make a pitch that I could help them out part time on a trial basis

- When I got a chance, I made sure to exceed expectations by delivering good work with excellent communication (this led to them giving me more work)

I did try out the Upwork route and really didn't like the kinds of jobs or the level of competition.

But now that I have kids I think that time for contracting is behind me -- I tried doing ~15 hrs a week this year and it was just too much for the family. Fortunately I was able to leverage those contract contacts to get a decent primary job in fintech.

Quite serious now:

In SF Bay Area - sperm donation.

I do not personally know any SWEs who do this, but a couple of my friends (and me) who work on their startup ideas do.

Link to an example of how much you will get paid.

https://ibb.co/5jD9Hfx

Here is the math, assuming you are in great health:

one 15 minute visit => 6+ vial Yield => $175

You cannot do it every day. There should be a 2-5 days abstinence period.

=> best case scenario => 3 times a week.

=> 4 weeks * 3 times per week * $175 per donation = $2100

As you can see in that link, there is a $1000 bonus if you make 12 monthly visits.

=> $3300 per month.

This is good for ethical reasons as well -> you help women with an ultra-important personal problem - how to become a mother.

In a time when the population is aging, you help to mitigate this problem with your own hands.

If everything is so good, what is the catch?

Such programs are picky about who they accept, claiming the acceptance rate is 1%.

I do not know what is the quality of the initial pool of candidates, so hard to tell what percent would be for the pool of SWEs that need side income.

P.S. I am quite serious about all of it, as I am part of this program as well, and the link with how much you get paid is for November in the company that I am donating to.

P.P.S. I wish I had known about such an option when I was a graduate student making $1600 / month for teaching. An extra $3k would make a huge difference in the quality of living and how much I could send home.

what's the reason for the abstinence period?

There is a set of requirements for the quality of the semen, including overall quantity and concentration.

There are many knobs one can tweak to increase the quality and abstinence of proper length (not too small and not too long is the most impactful and most straightforward)

One day, and for most people, two days, is not enough to pass the threshold to consider donation successful.

And for donation, it is actually not one threshold, but many. As you may see in the image with compensation per visit, there is a thing called vile.

Ideally, one vial is one pregnancy. In practice, I was told that due to possible complications, it requires 9-12 vials to get a woman pregnant.

=> They do not allow donations more often than two days between visits, and if your physical and mental health is not ideal (level of stress affects the number of vials per visit as well), it may take 3-4 days.

We can probably be more helpful if you can give some more details. E.g.:

- Are you currently working as an SWE during your day job?

- Do you just need more money in general, or do you specifically want/need for it to be via an SWE-side-job ?

- Are you located within a short commute of businesses that might need a part-time SWE, or would this need to be hybrid/remote?

- What skills (SWE-related or other) do you have to offer for this side-work?

- What duration(s) are you interested in committing to for a given side-job?

- Are you looking to work as a contractor or as a regular employee?

- Do you have a professional network that you could draw on, or do you need to find opportunities entirely on your own?

The best way would be to leverage your existing network and see if there is a way you can help someone near you in an hourly fashion.

An alternative approach might be a marketplace like https://www.moonlightwork.com which I used a handful of years ago but not recently.

I've: bartended, resold crap on ebay, flipped cars, participated in Gartner surveys, plowed snow, returned bottles.

Why side income? Why not focused on maximizing the salary of your primary job?

Related posted here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37150862 and has some useful ideas. My suggestion would be to get a second remote job. You know how to have a job.. just get a second remote one. Even if it's for 3-6 months and then you quite. A full second income is amazing.

I'd strongly recommend forgetting about the gig economy. It's a race to the bottom unless you're willing ti put in multi-year effort to build a portfolio so you can stand out and land larger consulting gigs. This is the reason I say if you need fast cash a second job is the fastest path.

Learn marketing and sales!

Afterwards, you will have a network of acquaintances who know you, they can roughly estimate what you can help them with, and some might be waiting for you to have some free time to help them solve their company's problems. And then you just pick an interesting problem and solve that. Rinse and repeat. It's not a direct path to profits, but over time it will lead to great work opportunities in areas that you enjoy working in.

Algorithmic trading. Especially in markets that offer leverage. It plays to SWE software strengths, the likelihood of having capital reserves, and is also great fun!

I am curious which market you are talking about and how do you get or pay for the data? Thanks!

Most day traders lose money each year. I doubt very many have sustained gains over a decade. Some do, and they do all the talking and marketing in the space.

Might as well save the time and play the lotto

I'd work on a side project. Freelancing platforms like upwork are very competitive and if you're in the U.S you'll never be able to compete on price.

Stick your cash in a high-yield savings account. Now that's passive income!

You mistyped “put it in SPY on 4x leverage”

Why risk it when you can write a risk-free loan to the federal government at 5.35%? (Maybe it's not risk-free if Congress forces them to default, but the Fed has some plans for that, and the stock market is unlikely to have a great day if we default.)

Margin rates are something like 13% right now. You might get lucky and see SPY do better than 13% a year, but you are risking a lot. People would not buy a primary residence at that rate, for example, and you can live inside that while you pay off the loan.

Not to say I recommend turbo-longing SPY on margin, but a few notes for the less conservative:

If you want to trade on margin, IBKR offers 5.83-6.83% [1] going down as you borrow more. They also pay 4.83% on idle cash.

With that said, you'd probably be better off with UPRO or SPXL for longer-duration holds (since your losses cannot exceed your investment) - and /ES or /MES for short-term holding since futures contracts are 60% long term capital gains treatment no matter how long you hold them.

> People would not buy a primary residence at that rate, for example, and you can live inside that while you pay off the loan.

If that's your benchmark we know people are paying more than 5.83% for 30-year fixed ;)

[1] https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/margin-rates.p...

If you want a leveraged position in the S&P 500 (either long or short), you can buy/sell S&P 500 futures with an implied financing rate that is approximately the risk-free rate. That's better than using margin. If you did use margin, Interactive Brokers offers lower margin rates than most retail brokers.

That's smart!

Don't do upwork. Even with US only positions it's become super competitive after 2020

Onlyfans

(For bug bounties!)

Kaggle is good. If you learn vulnerability research and development, then you can earn some bounties via HackerOne and Zerodium.

SWE pays well.

I would rather improve my skills, grow in my career and switch jobs to bump my salary than juggle a side income

Catalant has a marketplace platform for independent consultants, including SWEs:

https://catalant.com/for-independent-consultants/

Become an online instructor for a university. The pay isn’t great, but it is fairly easy (though, this probably depends on the school). The only caveat is they usually require at least a Master’s degree.

Have you considered mentoring with platforms like codementor or superprof? Not sure it fits the "reasonable amounts" but it sure is a nice exp.

I think it would be easier to get another full-time job and just exploit them both for as long as you can.

Just want to pass along a giant “fuck-you” to folks doing this that add stress on teammates who are trying to make it work.

Teammates have a second job too, only way to keep up with management/execs bullshit

Try overemployment. Get an easy second job that you allows you to meet expectations with minimal work.

It depends on what you can do and what you consider "reasonable amounts".

I can yodel, but no one wants to hear it.

How much will they pay for you to stop?

I will stop yodeling for less!

I'll set up the crowdfunder

Have you considered tax or municipal code enforcement?

If only there was some kind of service for finding good side gigs ...

There are lots of meme answers here, having spent the last couple of years trying I can tell you, it's really really hard. Companies don't want a weekend or off-hours devs. Upwork and the such are a race to the bottom. Other platforms that claim to be a better version of upwork, are much more dry. What did work? Craigslist and X. I have found two legit clients, both of whom have had me busy with return work. Both are small business owners. Small tech work, one wanted a small site that ended up morphing into a bigger project. The other I ended up setting up some python scripts to automate some ERP stuff.

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