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Comment by kylebenzle | Hacker News Reader

Ever since Vanta Black I've been super curious about this stuff. I bought the new Black 4.0 and was blown away. Compared it my blackest matte black paint (left), black paper, black 4.0 (middle) and sharpie (right). The black paint looks grey in comparison! If you need something very black this is the real deal.

However, it is NOT at ALL like they show in pictures where things just turn into a black hole in space. To get those photos they need very specific lighting. In normal light it doesn't look like anying special. Only in the right low to medium light does it give the effect.

https://culturehustle.com/products/black-4-0

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Vanta Black isn’t a paint, it’s an achievement of materials science. It very much does look like a black hole in space in the real world. These “blackest black” paints are just clout chasing by some guy attempting to profit from the situation where a materials science company doesn’t want to work with thousands of artists, because their real customers are like defence and telecom companies, and they are nothing like the real Vanta Black.

Isn't Black 4.0 supposed to be about as black (absorbs 99.96% of visible light) as Vantablack, even though it's just "a paint"? (I have no idea what it's made of)

Black 3.0 can absorb up to 99.0% of observable light.

Musou - 99.4%

Vantablack’s S-Vis spray - 99.8%

Black 4.0 - 99.95%.

Vantablack - 99.965%

So in other words, Black 4.0 'just a paint' is imperceptible from Vantablack using human vision, and the Anish Kapoor thing was just a publicity stunt?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anish_Kapoor#Vantablack_contro...

It's a reaction to Anish Kapoor's exclusive licensing of Vantablack, regarded as abusive in the art world.

Did you reply to my comment without reading all the way to the end of the sentence?

No. These numbers are measured perpendicular.

Vanta Black has low total hemispherical reflectance below 1% from all angles, others don't.

Looking at it the other way, Black 4.0 reflects 0.05% of the light, and Vantablack 0.035%. So Black 4.0 reflects about 40% more light. The difference is not that small.

On the other hand, Vantablack is highly toxic (similar to asbestos), while Black 4.0 should be quite a lot safer.

Right but 40% of something very small is also very small. If you are experiencing the two blacks in a normal ambient environment around lighting and other non highly light absorbent surfaces, they will look extremely similar.

Isn't light (luminosity) perception logarithmic?

No, the logarithmic effect bottoms out towards the low part of the scale. If you're somewhere very dark, your eye adjusts so that you get back to the middle of the range. But if you're somewhere light and just looking at black paint, it doesn't.

Having seen his exhibit in Venice. I will say, in the right contexts it really does look like a black hole. This doesn’t require limited lighting, just regular room lighting. 3d objects painted with it will disappear into themselves as if it was 2d.

the question is whether or not the same would happen with 'conventional' black paints.

It's easy to make black material that is very black measured perpendicular. Low total hemispherical reflectance is what makes Vanta Black different. You don't see it in other paints like Black 4.0.

Possible experiment: If you could spray very thin layer of Black 4.0 into a black velvet or one of those nanofiber cloths (so thin that it's not covering the texture) you might improve total hemispherical reflectance.

I will do this tomorrow! I'll water it down and use my spray gun. :)

Genius! The poor man's vanta black!

There is a science/maker that showed off the true blackest black by shining a bright light on each of them. One was the clear winner - then he revealed he faked it. It was really just a hole into a box. Quite the illusion. I can't find it right now to link it.

James, from The Action Lab https://youtu.be/JoLEIiza9Bc

That was it! Thanks.

A nanotubes coating (like VB) might have better range as it operates differently: from my understanding the coating “traps” light as in a maze, it does not “just” try to limit reflection.

>*Note: By adding this product to your cart you confirm that you are not Anish Kapoor, you are in no way affiliated to Anish Kapoor, you are not purchasing this item on behalf of Anish Kapoor or an associate of Anish Kapoor. To the best of your knowledge, information and belief this material will not make it's way into the hands of Anish Kapoor.

Huh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anish_Kapoor#Vantablack_contro...

"It all started when Kapoor landed the exclusive rights to use the pigment Vantablack, billed as the world’s darkest pigment and said to absorb 99.96 percent of light."

* https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artist-bans-anish-kapoor-g...

Hahaha IIUC Anish Kapoor, a British spectacle-based celebrity pop artist, did some silly bullshit where he arranged an exclusive contract for purchase of one of one of these blackest-ever paints (might have been Vanta?) so that the only way you could experience it was by visiting his exhibitions.

I guess the person making this new paint thought this was, well, bullshit, so this is a response to that :)

How does black 4.0 compare to Musou black?

Musou black was far more black than black 3.0 about a year ago. It wasn’t even close.

Black 3.0 can absorb up to 99.0% of observable light.

Musou - 99.4%

Vantablack’s S-Vis spray - 99.8%

Black 4.0 - 99.95%.

Vantablack - 99.965%

Silly question; understanding these are meant to be artistic paints, how durable are they?

Would it be even remotely feasible, for example, to paint the ThinkPad shell with it? I cannot be the only one who salivates at the concept :-)

Have you tried musou black?

I have tried many of these and smoothness/blackness vary a great deal.

Although lately I have been making YinMn blue mostly…

Gross cookie enforcement that is likely a violation of GDPR.

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