Adobe Is Selling AI-Generated Images of Violence in Gaza and Israel | Hacker News Reader

Adobe Is Selling AI-Generated Images of Violence in Gaza and Israel

vice.com

35 pointsadrian_mrd30 comments

That's the liar's dividend in action: "The benefit received by those spreading fake information as a consequence of the environment in which there is a great deal of fake information and hence it is unclear what is real and what is fake." There is no shortage of freely available media documenting the gruesome carnage inflicted by Israel on Gaza. So someone choosing to use AI-generated images instead may have some kind of ulterior motive.

Why does Hamas feel the need to stage so much of it then?

Israel is much less sadistic in their killing methods than Palestine (read torture and mutilation). One hypothesis is they're trying to convince people otherwise.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas_attack_on_Israel

As apposed to being buried under ruble for days slowly dying of dehydration while dealing with the excruciating pain of your injuries? Honestly think I'd rather die by Hamas' hands if I had a choice.

I wouldn't. Seeing my family tortured in front of me?

I'd take the ruble of concrete.

Raped to death? Burned alive?

You can only think this because their methods are our methods. Bringing buildings down around children letting them die by the thousands of dehydration and inadequate medical care while the survivors watch is as horrific as anything could be.

Yeah? Go to dead_terrorists on telegram and read some comments there, if you want to see Israel's sadism.

Israel is not exactly known for eschewing the use of torture, historically or currently.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-ho...

The documentation linked for torture on that press release (SUMMARY OF VIOLATIONS OF THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) says:

"Most frequently such torture or other ill-treatment takes the form of beatings: many detainees have described being beaten with gun butts immediately after arrest and then thrown on the floor of a jeep, where they lie during the journey under the boots of soldiers. It may also involve the use of dogs in an aggressive manner, painful shackling (if related to an arrest) or humiliating or degrading treatment."

Having been to Brazilian prison (and being under Brazil's jurisdiction) I wouldn't classify this as torture, otherwise my brother was also tortured when arrested for drug trafficking.

I wouldn't say this type of violence is as shocking as Hamas is, too.

> Having been to Brazilian prison I wouldn't classify this as torture, otherwise my brother was also tortured when arrested for drug trafficking.

So, either Israel doesn't torture or someone in prison for drug trafficking in a system in which torture is a well-known (and apparently, from polling, widely publicly accepted!) systemic feature of the law enforcement and prison system [0] was tortured?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Brazil

I think there's a difference between mutilating someone's limbs and hitting them with the back of a gun and UN's definition doesn't accurately describe that difference.

Have you experienced any of these things or witnessed them up close? I think one big thing the waterboarding era should have taught us that it's hard to accurately gauge the horror of a technique from a distance. And that torturers take advantage of this tension.

I've been beaten more times than I can count by gangs as a child for being effeminate (one of them breaking my right arm that's still crooked) and stripped naked once. I can post photographic evidence if it's ok by HN's rules.

I am fine with it, apart from my arm being crooked I don't mind, I even think it made me a more resilient person. I know my feelings can be offensive but I'm being honest. I empathize with people that have been traumatized by this kind of violence but I wasn't.

My father was also beaten by the police as a kid for playing with a wind vane because it resembles a swastika.

I still think the UN fails by putting limb mutilation and immolation under the same category of being beaten with the back of a gun.

You don't need to prove it. My point is that what's torture depends more on the psychological context than the type or extent of the injury.

FWIW I got a bunch of teeth knocked out by a cop with a baton and I'm haunted by it. It wasn't a melee or brawl or chaotic situation: I was under his complete control, he lined up the shot and took it. It felt like torture to me, and I'm happy that the UN agrees.

I'm not so sure about that. https://electronicintifada.net/content/israelis-filmed-abusi...

I said "Israel is much less sadistic in their killing methods", none of these videos address my claim.

They're either dead terrorists/fighters being defiled or not being killed.

Hamas's primary reason of existence is propaganda. Actually, two different kinds:

- Direct propaganda to the Palestinian people that peace with Israel is practically impossible and morally indefensible, and that the only option is to kill millions of Israelis in the name of Palestinian living space

- Indirect propaganda to the Israeli people that peace with Palestine is practically impossible and morally indefensible, and that the only option is to oppress millions of Palestinians in the name of Jewish living space

That last one is going to not make sense, except in a "butterflies and flowers[0]" sense... until you remember that Israel directly funded Hamas specifically to discredit more liberal and secular Palestinian independence movements that might[1] have actually been willing to settle for a two-state solution with a few land swaps and concessions. The reasoning for why they'd fund their own violent opposition is outside the scope of this comment[2], you just need to know that it happened.

Once you understand that Hamas exists primarily to propagandize against Israel, the staging makes sense. I mean, actual death and destruction is a stimulus that provokes pain and anguish, but why stop at what's real? Supernormal stimuli provoke supernormal responses. In other words, Hamas is a violence porn and snuff film factory masquerading as a guerilla warfare unit. In other, other words, they're terrorists.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc&t=240s

[1] Ok, I don't actually know if this counterfactual would have held, had Benjamin Netanyahu not interfered with peace talks in the early 2000s, or if the more secularized Palestinian political organizations would have still insisted on getting back more land from Israel[3] than was otherwise acceptable.

[2] Far-right groups in general love to secretly break bread with their enemies as a form of mutual ideological sadomasochism. Remember, the evil other they propagandize against isn't their real enemy. They actually share a common cause with the evil other: kill the liberals and left-wingers trying to stop them from killing each other and turning their country into a perpetual meat grinder.

[3] Yes, pretty much all of Israel is stolen land, in the "British Empire" sense. Used to actually be part of Britain. That theft is still in living memory, which is also a factor as to why Hamas finds it so easy to recruit new terrorists and why any attempt at negotiating a two-state peace deal is impossible. Peace on fair terms is morally unacceptable to both parties.

The “Destroyed buildings in Gaza town of Gaza strip in Israel, Affected by war” image is obviously fake. Destroyed buildings do not magically avoid falling on the street. Nobody takes the time during a war to clean the street so it is dirt while leaving the rubble on both sides of the street.

You can see the same kind of schizohprenic view of warfare in most media "photos." If cars are overturned and burnt, but the fires are out while they are still carrying stretchers away, then it's fake. If the buildings windows are also intact a few feet away from overturned cars, either call BS on the photo and everyone who is posting it or demand to know who made and installed those windows, because I want some!

The problem is not the fake propaganda. The problem is stupid people who believe it.

"The problem is not the fake propaganda. The problem is stupid people who believe it."

Propaganda is tailored to its audience. If the audience is smart, so can be the propaganda. But if it isn't and has only a TikTok Clip attention span, then low effort will get the job done.

It was bound to happen. I think we'll have to start determining the credibility of photographic evidence from the source that claims to have captured it. Then we have to hope there's enough backlash whenever a source lies that they stop doing it.

[dupe]

More discussion over here yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38179277

Truth is always the first casualty in war.

first, holy hell how can someone be so disgusting and heartless as to actually think to make and sell these images.

Second... will human suffering finally be enough to have a serious conversation about the harm of these tools. No... no probably not (See: first point) but I feel more and more concerned about the use of AI generated images and our complete inability to tell what is real or not very very soon.

Meh.

They're saying that Adobe is selling it, not creating it.

Could Adobe be considered as creating it due to them generating AI assets on their servers in the cloud and not allowing users to do it with their hardware?

Unless I missed it, I don't see anything here about the assets being created using Adobe's AI services. Unless that is a requirement of Adobe Stock?

It seems like there are 2 distinct problems going on here. The fact that this is on Adobe Stock in the first place, which is questionable even if it was a legit image.

The second being it generated by AI, which is unclear what services made it.

But is generated by Adobe? The picture is being sold for $100 which seems weird when you could just generate the same on the same website for free

It's Vice, they're in the business of being sensationalist.

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