The Third Wave (Experiment) | Hacker News Reader

The Third Wave (Experiment)

en.wikipedia.org

58 pointsJupe21 comments

Can you imagine Palo Alto HS running this experiment today? Parents and students would be enraged. The teacher would be fired.

The point was to show how easy it is to get caught up in such movements (all of us are susceptible). There’s a good book that shares this story from an ordinary german citizen:

https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Soluti...

My takeaway is that way back in the 1960s, someone proved that public schools were easily abused for the sort of indoctrination no one would want for their children...

And then things just continued, as normal.

So they instead prepared the children for college where the real indoctrination happens, to stay under the radar.

(jk of course)

Presumably, college kids would be (newly minted) adults, and theoretically less susceptible to indoctrination. At least, that's the lie I'll tell myself when I start day-drinking here in 10 minutes. Made it almost all the way to lunch.

Getting enraged is fashionable nowadays.

I fail to see the conclusion of the experiment though. Why are people susceptible to this? Is it that they crave leadership, boundaries, tradition (made up or not) and comraderie? Is it that they're gullible and will go along with anything?

For me, the takeaway is less about why these movements are popular and more about how our perception of past events differs from our perception of current events.

The experiment (to me) shows that what appears appalling and repulsive in hindsight can feel appealing, exciting and positive in the present.

But, ultimately, this wasn't really an experiment. There was no hypothesis, and so any "results" or "conclusions" from this are going to be subjective. Doesn't mean it isn't interesting though!

edits: bad grammar

The conclusion is that fascism is an extremely powerful drug -- it only took a few days and some very simple, blunt instruments to get people hooked. This is why when you see highly educated e/acc people, tech bubble people, VCs etc. tinkering inquisitively, semi-ironically with taboo right-wing ideas on twitter it's not really very funny or cute.

Nick Land really did wield strong black magic from Leamington Spa. That stuff really works, it echoes for decades, and it is as powerful and radioactive as people say it is.

Why are people susceptible to this? I don't know, I think that's a bit like asking "why are people into heroin" -- "it is extremely powerful -- it temporarily makes everything make sense and feel good " is maybe the way to put it.

"Die Welle" is a very well made dramatization of this, set in 2000s Germany.

What could go wrong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Generation_(1979_fil...

Who else clicked this link, confusing it with the First Wave?

Source: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0160277/?cmdf=the+first+wave+sc...

I remember reading this during Accelerated Reader program as a kid. That book was called "The Wave" [0]

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(novel)

> Jones based the name of his movement on the supposed fact that the third in a series of waves is the strongest.

I cannot find any useful reference to this fact. Any pointer?

It obviously makes me think of the third wave of feminism but that was only in the 90s. Just like the third wave of ska.

Edit: shadowbanned top-level comment says it's a surfing term. https://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/why-should-we-never-take... maybe?

I think the implication is that he completely made it up.

I think this is a common superstition among surfers waiting for a set to roll in

My teacher did the simpler version and had us watch the german film adaption of this in high school.

I always struggled with understanding how Germans could accept Hitler. It finally clicked when I saw Trump rising to power. Of course they are extremely different, but seeing half a population accept (to me) obvious lies and disinterest in truth, I didn't find it so hard to believe what happened in the thirties in Germany any more.

The struggle isn't seeing how other people fall for this. That's easy to characterize. It's easy for someone to call another person's actions stupid and move on, it happens all the time.

The hard part is realizing that these people are a mirror. That their susceptibility is a reflection of your susceptibility.

You look at the people who follow trump as disinterested in truth and I agree. But have you also seen the behavior of people on the other side? The modern day liberal is just as disinterested in truth as the trump following conservative.

And that is the purpose of the experiment. The experiment was not conducted as an observation of "human behavior". We can already observe that by looking at the nazis. The experiment exists to tell you something about yourself.

No? Maybe you are projecting but not everyone is that way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarian_per...

Mostly everyone is. How else would you explain nazis taking over the country? It was a huge majority of the country that fell for this.

Unless you're trying to say only Germans are this way but that would be racist and highly against your own biases.

Additionally the link you provided associates this with only right wing behavior which is, again, biased. Why would liberals or even centrists be spared from this? Makes no sense. Remember: Formalizing a term with structured definitions and formal sounding writing doesn't make that term scientifically legitimate. I can easily create a wikipedia entry for "Left-wing Gender Neurocognitive Disorder."

here's one I made up with chatgpt:

   Symptoms and Diagnosis:

   Individuals diagnosed with LWGND exhibit a range of symptoms that include:

   - Cognitive dissonance when attempting to reconcile left-wing political ideology with personal gender identity.
   
   - Psychological distress or confusion due to perceived inconsistencies between societal gender expectations and personal beliefs.
   
   - Difficulty engaging with political activities or discussions related to gender, resulting in social or occupational impairment.

   Diagnosis of LWGND requires a nuanced understanding of the individual’s sociopolitical context and personal history, often involving comprehensive assessments by multidisciplinary teams of political theorists, psychologists, and neuroscientists.

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