New study finds electric vehicles are driven less than gas cars | Hacker News Reader

New study finds electric vehicles are driven less than gas cars

techxplore.com

18 pointsrntn29 comments

Because those who need to drive more or farther (e.g. rural folks) are also very much less likely to buy electric cars, maybe even just for political reasons.

Another theory would be that people who buy electric cars have higher incomes and are more likely to live close to their workplace.

That seems to be the same theory as the above comment though, as the inverse means that those who live further and have lower income may not be as likely to buy electric

No because farmers are rural, and live in their business.

If you live in a rural area you need to drive more because less places are in walking distance, not that that means you can't use an ev, but you know 'people'.

Most rural residents are not farmers, and especially aren’t land owning farmers. Even on farms most of the employees don’t live on the farm but are hired help.

I provided an example to show they aren't 2 sides of the same coin.

You'd be absolutely astounded by the number of $70k pickups out here. Just about everyone has one, probably because beautiful houses cost only 2x what a nice new car costs.

Yes! Citations:

https://coltura.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Infographic-G...

https://coltura.org/gasoline-superusers-2-report/

https://www.theverge.com/23934889/electric-vehicle-ev-transi...

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/electric-cars-were-alread...

Rural folk tend to be more resourceful when it comes to personal vehicle repair, and EVs are usually difficult or even impossible to repair without a certified mechanic.

I think that's a stereotype that doesn't hold up. Nearly everyone just drops it off at the mechanic like everyone else, from what I can tell.

However, the _mechanic_ doesn't have EV skills.

I took a Tesla (to be inspected) back in 2016 to local place my family used my entire life

The mechanic nearly berated me for buying an electric car, mentioned who electronics are the least reliable part of a car, and said mine was already defective -- because he didn't understand regenerative braking

Needless to say I stopped going there. But the experience really drives home your point

My hot take is that this is because the electric vehicles are mostly the secondary car used by parent (likely dad?) who has a known commute distance.

The other car is the primary car for random errands and family hauler for carpooling to the away soccer games and long distance trip car.

If you had an ev, surely you would preferentially use that though, lower running costs etc.

People don't make long journeys nearly as often as they think they do. So the biannual long trip would be balanced out by all the other journeys.

Another interpretation is that people who drive EVs are also realising that multi-modal transport is better, so they are shifting their journeys to "non-car".

This is a double win!!

Taking an ICE vehicle off the road, and also, using the replacement vehicle less - so less road wear, less energy used, less traffic, more pedestrians and cyclists and car sharers.

Could this just be because people who drive EVs are more likely to live near cities with high traffic?

People spending an hour commute going 5 miles will drive fewer miles than people spending an hour to go 50

In Norway, this trend over time is for EVs to be driven more and more and ICE to be driven less:

https://www.rystadenergy.com/news/norway-fuel-demand-electri...

> In 2022, the average BEV drove 12,950 kilometers (km), surpassing for the first time the average distance of 12,000 km for diesel passenger vehicles. Overall, average passenger vehicle travel has steadily declined in Norway, from about 13,800 km in 2007 to 11,100 km in 2022.

> Average BEV distance gradually increased from around 11,800 km in 2015 to 12,950 km. EV penetration in Norway is slightly skewed towards customers and counties with above-average annual driving requirements, and charging infrastructure and vehicle range are no longer limiting factors.

Which makes sense, the ideal case for EV is someone who drives a lot every day, since you save compared with ICE for every mile driven.

One early Tesla success story was a rural postal delivery man who managed to pay for the then very expensive Model S with the mileage payments he received that assumed he was burning fuel.

edit better graph:

https://robbieandrew.github.io/EV/img/avg_dist_driven.png

Note that this graph could be used to support the exact same conclusion as the current article, between 2016 and 2022 EVs drove less miles than ICE. There's a very clear trend though.

And the data for the current story is from second hand sales. Which adds probably upwards of 3 years lag to the data.

When range is your overriding concern, what's so surprising?

An offshoot to the range problem is the question: "Can I be sure I can recharge this thing?"

This can be solved by raising gas prices.

"How much can I spend to throw away CO2 to go to a place with my car?"

whilst simultaneously hurting those that can't afford a EV.

the point of sale ev credits coming in 2024 would help, but if your in the used market (e.g. low income end) this would suck.

In the UK we 'technically' have a fuel duty escalator that goes up each year (I say technically because it's been overridden by the chancellor every year for the last decade).

Anyway, I think that's a good idea for these situations.

I communicates that prices will be going up in the long term and allows people to cut their cloth accordingly.

I do share your concern though. I think we need to resurrect the idea of the 'peoples car' to get cheap new EVs out there, to make up for a lack of depth in the second hand ev market.

That's how "climate change" activists think - not to create something great and outstanding but make you miserable by making something great and outstanding either illegal or prohibitively expensive.

That's what EV are good for, outside of narrow good use cases. People just don't wanna use them for anything except virtue signalling.

Concern by those who own them or those speculating about those who own them?

For me, range has never been a concern or issue for the last few years.

It's a total nonstarter for me. Bring unsure that I can find a working charging station, and have to go out if my way to take that risk sucks.

I've rented quite a few EVs long term and if you have to travel 200+ mile trips even 5% of the time they incite terrifying range anxiety in some (most) parts of the country (US).

If you are always or very nearly always under 100 miles a day, they're fine. Most _people_ live in that realm, but most _areas_ in the US are full of people who do not.

I was thinking about buying an electric car when I realized an electric scooter would serve me nearly as well (maybe even better), be 50x cheaper, and I wouldn't need to register it.

Same but for an e-bike. Some people treat it like a lifestyle choice, but once you see it as just another utility you can shed a lot of the BS rhetoric around it. The math checks out.

Just scoot/bike/skate your way to work if you can, and be happier and wealthier for it.

Yes, for relatively short commutes and in cities much smaller vehicles than fully sized SUVs and likes would make so much more sense. From resource and space perspective. You can fit more of the road they take less parking places and overall less resources.

Maybe it should be mandated that when you are buying an EV the sales people go over alternatives...

We anecdotally fit a number of these scenarios suggested. My wife in gas SUV commutes to work, but that is short 4-5 miles each way. I work from home with electric vehicle but do more errands and kids activities. After 4.5 years, I barely have 12,000 miles on the car; though, in the last year it has been closer to 5,000 miles, maybe.

Why don't you just both preferentially use the ev?

Yes there are some situations where you need both cars, but for the rest you could just use the ev?

Not judging, genuine question.

There was also a big event in 2020 that would have caused people who could afford to buy expensive Teslas to drive a lot less. Other EVs at the time were lacking in range, affordability, and/or practicality and would probably not be anyone's primary vehicle.

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