Windows 10 PC will soon be 'junk'
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As a sidenote for whatever reason I tried to install Windows 11 on an AMD 3700X (don't remember why exactly I did that as I typically don't run Windows). The AMD 3700X came out in mid 2019. Windows 11 refused to install for the hardware wasn't supported: I don't know if it was the mobo, the CPU, a configuration in the mobo... Really no clue. All I know is not only it failed but it failed without telling what wasn't supported. On a computer that was not even four years old.
Meanwhile my wife is happily using Ubuntu on my old sixth gen Core i7 6700K from... 2015 (first Asus mobo that had a NVMe M.2 PCIe slot so in eight years I basically just upgraded the NVMe SSD to a more recent one).
I agree with the other poster: it's an opportunity to have "old" computers and just install whatever Linux distro on them.
All that "normies" need is a browser: I switched my 67 years old mother-in-law to Linux. If she can use Linux, nearly anyone can.
But in my opinion this isn't really about security. It's more about DRM. Microsoft wants to appease the content providers by requiring TPM, supporting attestation etc.
This way they can support running Android apps (and other things like their own store thing they're still pushing) but keep the user from messing with them under the hood. The same way macOS does with iOS apps. If you turn off system integrity protection on Mac you will lose the ability to run iOS apps.
The now canceled Windows 10x already had state separation, it used Storage Spaces to manage partitions. It's basically immutable Windows, similar to ChromeOS.
[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d...
macOS has it too in the form of SIP and Signed System Volume. But once you turn those things off there's suddenly a lot of content you can no longer access like iOS apps.
In the past, I used these MacBook Pros from 2012 to install additional memory and replace small HDDs with large SSDs but today this is no longer possible. Still, some perfectly good hardware can be bought cheap only because Apple doesn't support it. And if you used it back then, you can install perfectly functioning software on them like, say, Logic and use it for many years to come as an audio workstation even if Apple doesn't want to support it anymore.
I didn't even boot into windows. I immediately installed Ubuntu, and now it is my home automation and home media interface.
Honestly, I can't think of anything more beneficial to the Linux community then suddenly having a lot of cheap computers with good specs that are not only merely adequate, but actually rather exceptional for the cost, all because of the advent of Windows 11.
What was Microsoft thinking?!?
Short-term profits.
Windows 11 is a free update and they don't make profits from the sale of new hardware since they're not in the business of selling hardware (barring the niche surface devices which don't really sell meaningful numbers to be profitable).
Edit: -4 downvotes already? wow. What's with the downvotes my dudes? Should I juste come to HN to spam "hurr durr Microsft bad" for karma farming to coincide with the acceptable party line?
I'd be fine with that, if they offered an alternative for power users who don't want to participate in Microsoft's move-the-mouse-cursor-for-shitty-popup-celebrity-news corporate strategy. Even an expensive alternative! But they have chosen not to do so.
Furthermore, Microsoft makes money from ads, so a more intrusive UI along with more extreme data harvesting also leads to more profits.
For consumers, Xbox Game Pass, OneDrive, Office 365
For businesses, Office 365, Azure, etc.
I just installed Windows 10 on a VM and laptop, both are getting non-stop "suggestions" to "finish setting up my device" with Microsoft 365 subscriptions.
Security.
They've gone on the record that they saw significantly better end-user security when the hardware used had TPM, SecureBoot, et al. to ward off common attack vectors.
I am inclined to believe them.
not that it matters, I binned Windows everywhere when it was clear with Windows 10 release that the platform is now designed to work against the users interests
Common attack vectors aren't warded off by SecureBoot. Alternative OSes and messing with your own computer are the ones impacted. None of the common attacks on Windows need rewriting your boot loader.
It's essential for TCPI platform attestation, that has come back into fashion recently.
It won't be your computer anymore, it will be a platform for them to show you ads on.
Why?
I mean, I don't doubt their findings, but I doubt that's the reason they imposed the requirement.
I believe this idea applies to tech as well as criminal justice.
We should actually welcome Microsoft’s increasingly anti-freedom, anti-consumer, anti-environment shenanigans as a boon for FOSS.
For normal office or school use, there's nothing wrong with them! You need an SSD, about 8GB of RAM, and a first-generation i5 or i7 or newer, and you have a PC that is more than good enough for most people's needs.
I am worried about how my business is going to be impacted by the forced retirement of Windows 10, but, I'll adapt, just as the industry always does. Probably, that looks like installing Windows 11 on unsupported hardware with a disclaimer and instructions on how to keep it updated. It's unfortunate, but given that the alternative is enormous amounts of e-waste, I'll take it.
(For those who would say the alternative is Linux: Yes, for you or me, but not for the average customer. Linux machines won't sell.)
It is crazy that they can just abandon hardware that drove sales of their software after only a few years.
They are garbage the moment the battery ages out. For some tablets, that meant one or if very lucky, two years. That's a lot of nice screens to the bin for something that otherwise should be trivial to replace.
but supporting 2+Ghz 64-bit x86’s in 2023 isn’t really asking a lot.. and android phones in particular need to be prosecuted criminally for their ocean garbage
You still need to support those, or your expensive factory automation platform stops working.
Unless society as a whole is entirely on-board on paying factory renovations, or the environmental impact of such upheaval of scrapping away working manufacturing plants.
Either you fix anything that is broken, i.e. bug fixes both security and non-security related, or you should be required to let the people who bought it fix it, forever.
Did you stop supporting Windows 95? Ok, time to put it's source code and build tools into the public domain.
10-year old computers these days are still very much perfectly usable machines. As one of the other posters says, 'most people only need a browser'.
If you want to stay with Windows, just use that old Windows machine until it falls apart.
If you don't want to stay with Windows, there are many Linux distros out there that work just as well as (better than!) Windows ever did.
Maybe $1 per pound / $2.20 per KG based on estimated ewaste.
I would love to see cell phone providers who refuse to let me activate perfectly usable phones and Google who literally will not allow apps for older versions of Android in the Play Store change their ways.
I'm staying with Windows both because I've been using Microsoft's tech since MS-Dos 2 back in 1985, and work is a Microsoft estate, again making Linux a no-go for me.
That said, I have Windows 11 on my Surface, and usability stinks to high heaven, squared. And so I will stick with Windows 10. I'm keeping an eye on 11 via the Surface, but not hoping for usability to get easier in the near future...
Why is that a factor? I use Windows at work, but at home all of my machines are Linux. It doesn't cause me any issues.
The whole point of "Bring your own device" is corporate control and corporate safety.
I paid for Windows 10 on my one-and-only gaming machine. I am one user. I upgraded my gaming machine (same hard disk & Win 10 installation). Now it watermarks the screen with "Activate Windows. Go to Settings to activate Windows." even over the top of games.
Sure there will be exceptions, some may migrate to mac or linux, but for the most part, most people just don't need a computer.
Despite the name, this is a full fledge Windows Desktop. The full name is Windows 10 IOT ENTERPRISE LTSC 2021. It is the version I run on my PC.
99% of the PCs that can run Windows 10, can run Windows 11. The only problem is TPM, but if you burn your ISO to USB using Rufus, it has an option to disable TPM requirement.
Or you can also install Linux.
I don't see the problem here. Of course, it would be best if TPM was not an official (but skippable) requirement on Windows 11.
But yes, Rufus removes the stupid requirements.
You can’t always “install windows 11 easily” the system requirements for 11 shut out a lot of older machines arbitrarily. Windows thinks my relatively new machine, built in 2020 with modern hardware, “doesn’t meet the system requirements” because it “doesn’t have a tpm” (it does). I think a bios change fixes it? But for now it keeps me on 10 and that’s fine with me.
Using Linux is an option, but not an easy one for many users.
It’s possible (with much effort) to get a legit licence for Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC.
But just get an evaluation copy, promote it to volume and KMS activate it and save yourself the hassle.
If you really need LTSC for prod they are available too as such :)
And no, in many cases you can't install windows 11.
You won't find the problem if you don't want to.
The only requirement that I know of for Windows 11 is TPM. Burning the ISO to USB using Rufus removes this requirement.
And although I personally am a fan of LTSC it isn't what your typical user would expect.
Besides, the problem isn't primarily about the computer geek that like to fiddle with the computer. But the single parent on a tight budget and no interest in computers. Your grandparents etc.
So Microsoft is basically making the decision that you need a new device if you want to use apps that have a certain security level, and rather than just disabling those apps they've elected to disable the entire operating system.
I'm not sure if anything actually requires TPM per se yet because they still need to support Windows 10 but it's clearly the eventual goal.
The point is that a lot of perfectly good hardware out there that can run Windows 10 cannot run Windows 11 "easily" or at all. My laptop is one such a device. Even if it would let me, the dual core cpu would be unbearable under that environment.
Installing Linux is not a problem for people interested in using Linux. Younger people are more exposed to Linux because of devices like Raspberry Pi (the one place where "Linux on the Desktop" is absolutely a thing!). But there are a lot of folks who have never used Linux, and probably never will. And their systems will be more landfill fodder.
I doubt there is a PC that can run windows 10 that cannot run windows 11.