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Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

That happened fast! I expected it to drag on for much longer. Wonder if he'll appeal.

It was fast because the US Government did a fantastic job of prosecuting him, and his defense team had an awful client. Basically, it was obvious he was guilty, and there was almost no chance his lawyers could show there was a reasonable doubt that he had not committed the crimes he was accused of.

Also because he broke the terms of his pretrial release, and so was forced to await the trial in jail. That made the idea of delaying the start of the trial for as long as possible less appealing.

Even he was like he had to use a VPN to watch the Super Bowl, but this year it was streaming for free, no VPN needed. Just a liar throughout.

You can watch it on free digital broadcast, with a $30 antenna.

Yeah the defense had no alternative story to offer. Before the trial they sort of hinted that Caroline Ellison was responsible for all the fraud, but they never really made that case in court, presumably because the facts didn't exist.

So it was three co-conspirators testifying and a lot of hard evidence vs SBF saying that he remembered some conversations differently, and being incredibly evasive on cross-examination. They had nothing.

It was also fast because the counterparties weren't just nobodies in a Discord channel, but also big investors with deep pockets.

They always appeal..

"Dad, why is the American government the best government?

"Because of our endless appeals system"

Thank You for Smoking

"Your teacher crafted that question?

Look, ignoring obvious problems in the syntax..."

Beyond underrated (the book / movie)

Appealing a criminal conviction is quite hard. It's certainly his right to file an appeal, but he's likely going to be detained for the duration of the appeals, and the likelihood of being successful seems pretty low to me.

Yeah you don’t just automatically get an appeal. You need to point to specific errors in the trial. Of which it didn’t seem like there were many.

Yeah, but even if it's not automatic and you need specific errors. A legal team is going to file one.

Their arguments might vary and ultimately might not be very good, but you miss every shot you don't take.

He can only appeal on grounds that were raised during trial. Did his lawyers even object to anything? Did they try to prevent the admission of key evidence? Did they raise any points of constitutional law?

If not, he might be fucked. Appeals aren't just "the lower court convicted me and I want to try again", they are "the lower court got it wrong, my lawyer brought the point up, but then they ignored it".

I wouldn't agree that it is necessarily hard -- I've done dozens of appeals -- but often with trials there is not a lot of meat left on the bone; most appeals I see are trying to make mountains out of molehills.

What will usually happen is that the defense team will find dozens of trial errors, but none of them will get over the bar of being serious enough that they would have swayed the jury, since the evidence presented was too conclusive. So, the appellate court will note that the trial judge could have done a better job, but then leave the conviction intact.

Most criminal convictions in the USA are only overturned on constitutional violations relating to searches and seizures, probably none of which apply here.

> but often with trials there is not a lot of meat left on the bone;

That's basically what I meant by it being "hard". Maybe "rare" would be a better term. The main thrust of the point is that the federal judiciary has been running criminal trials for a long time, and has worked out most of the kinks at this point. Most district courts are able to run a criminal trial without creating an error that creates an opportunity to overturn the conviction on appeal.

Agree. And federal courts are way better at this than state courts. Federals are more academic. State courts the judges are just running buck wild doing whatever the hell they feel and never looking in a law book in their lives.

Also, if you have a federal issue, you have more swings at an appeal froma state conviction.

Every time I see the 11 appeal steps in a state conviction chain I get anxiety.

Just wondering, why would a lawyer like yourself be frequenting HN?

Have seen it a lot, and just wondering the attraction given it's a tech themed news aggregator.

Tech touches everything. So does law. Tech cos need lawyers. Lawyers need to understand and/or use technology. Or it's entertainment. Any reason is as good as the next.

Not a lawyer, never passed the bar. I just litigate on my own behalf against the government when they don't follow their own laws, and spend a decade here or there in jail where there is lots of legal work to read...

Why wouldn't they? There are probably loads of people here who don't work in tech whatsoever. (e.g. myself: a holder of degrees in English and classical piano; a student and part-time shop assistant. Programming/tech/science related interests are only a hobby.)

Appeals are expensive and risky. He may appeal but I doubt he has the money to. Also, he probably has no grounds for appeal because he really did commit fraud, the government has a lot of evidence that he is a criminal, and the government did not violate his rights.

I suspect he'll appeal. When you're looking at life in prison, as Bankman-Fried is, there's no reason not to make the Hail Mary play.

Of course he'll appeal. I mean, this is an ass clown that would YOLO it all on a coin flip. Offhand, the Judge ruled he couldn't ~~lie~~ testify about lawyers approving fraud and I think there were some defense witnesses that weren't allowed. Anytime a lawyer objects and the judge has to make a decision, that's a potential grounds for an appeal. In 4 weeks of trial I bet there were a lot of objections! Plus there are a lot of decisions before the trial (excluding/including witnesses, testimony, evidence, etc)

yes, seemed quick for all the reasons sibling posts mention.

appeals aside, it's not over... We've had first trial, yes, but what about second trial?

Four charges had been separated out into a second trial for March 11 of next year. Same judge, different jury? May have been due to logistical reasons or discussions with the Bahamanian government around extradition. It sounds like the government has the option of dropping these over the next months as well.

Sentencing for this one (or both but that seems extremely quick) was just scheduled for March 28 2024.

Why does the sentencing happen so long after the verdict?

Depends on the jurisdiction and sentencing guidelines, but my layman’s understanding is so that both parties have time to construct and file arguments over the severity of the sentence.

He can try to appeal all he wants, but his case is rather clear. That's why jurors didn't take long at all.

He was kind of obviously guilty which is one reason it went fast and which will make it hard to appeal.

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