My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore.
Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.
Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.
I learned years ago that any chemical that helps you sleep ensures that you can't sleep without it. I've used everything from thc to Benadryl to lavender and everything in between.
It all had the same effects: slowly degrading effectiveness and sleeplessness without it.
Pro-tip: find the source of your insomnia. Is it chemical or is it electrical or is it just habit? Doing a real sleep test and working with doctors was life changing. Mine was habit and anxiety. Meditation and therapy have helped.
Anecdotal, I know. But what happens when the thc runs out? You crash. That's what I did.
I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to.
As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.
That was a life-changer for me.
Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until sunrise, all in the matter of days.
Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.
It’s basically bedtime “stories” that are more like improvised narrative mazes that are just interesting enough to keep your interest (and exhaust your brain) but not interesting or meaningful enough to keep you awake.
I went from laying awake for hours and hours as a general nightly routine to falling asleep reliably in 10-20 minutes. I didn’t even know it was possible to fall asleep that fast.
As a tip: There’s nothing to “get” about the podcast. It’s just a treadmill for the overactive parts of your brain.
Exactly. Back when I read more, I would have books to stimulate (daytime/commute reading) and 'bedtime books', which had to be interesting enough to read, but also effortful and ultimately tiring enough to promote sleep.
Now I do the same with TV shows in Plex, late at night. Unusually, it's the documentaries that stop me sleeping, and the classic US TV shows (that I like) that help me drift away.
One trick I found myself is to visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes. Try to interpret something you can vaguely see, and then try to visualise it. This imposes a kind of clear image for a short duration for me, from which I try to see and visualise something else in there and so on, kind of like a visual association chain. That really gets me sleepy after a couple of minutes!
Ooh, the visualization whirlwind. This is the first time I’ve ever hear anyone talk about it or had to give it a name. At least for me it’s just tons of images flashing before my eyes, rapidly changing, only tenuously guided by my mind.
Imposing the images works for me similarly to when you "can't unsee" something. Like when you start seeing something specific in a generic shape or pattern, like with clouds. I tell myself that I see something, which makes me actually visualise it.
In the end I went to the GP for anxiety and came out with a depression diagnosis and a bottle of Lexapro. Lucky for me I didn't get the crazy side effects and in combination with melatonin at least getting to sleep is no longer a problem.
In the past I've also found that deliberately clearing my thoughts is a way to slip from 'day mode' to those dozy random thoughts, but its often hard to remember in the moment and doesn't always work.
i also eat well, and make sure to not have blue light exposure for the last hour of my day.
But what really helped me, especially since I have crazy ADHD, is exercise. I lift when I get up, and do 1-2 hours of hard HIIT in the evenings after work. My body is absolutely shot by the time I'm done so I really don't have the energy to have my brain go all over the place. This coupled with a nice cold plunge in the evenings after said workouts (and another cold shower before I sleep), and good nutrition has helped me big time.
The THC does help, especially if I do it at the right time. If I smoke in the afternoons I am absolutely destroyed by sundown. I do fear it's creating an addiction or a physical dependence, but I value my sleep considerably.
Except melatonin, because that's what your body natural produces as a signal for sleep.
do people really not know how to debate anymore? your argument would get an F at Harvard Debate Club because of the strength of your argument, not the accuracy of it.
I would highly recommend getting off it asap. Maybe taper off if you can't quit right away. First nights will be tough: sleepless, cold sweats, crazy dreams, but then it should get much much better. Be well!
Tip for getting off weed - start by lowering the damn dosage. A lot of commonly used products are the equivalent of a triple shot. And folks do it daily.
YMMV. That's me after a sleepless night.
Of course the drug war was a classist and racist thing and ultimately a failure because its propaganda couldn't keep up with people's desire for cannabis and the truth on how its far less dangerous than they were told. But to win politically you need to go big, so now we've over-corrected into cannabis being entirely harmless or even being a wonderdrug and cure-all, which obviously isn't true.
I see people on reddit recommend it for any number of health issues which I think is reckless and ignorant. A lot of these people have health issues that need to be treated. Covering up these issues with cannabis isn't going to help in the long run. Worse, almost zero discussion on how cannabis can trigger lifelong schizophrenia for people who have schizophrenia in their family and have latest schizophrenia that otherwise would have remained dormant for a long time, even the rest of their lives.
It reminds me a bit of the crony capitalism that kept stevia from being used as a sweetener. Society over-corrected with that as well, and honestly it tastes kinda terrible. And like all sweetners, who knows if its healthy. I don't think the blind watchmaker was expecting sweetness with no calories the same way she didn't expect being able to artificially shoot up your dopamine and serotonin with things like cannabis.
I don't think modern people realize how unbelievably delicate our bodies and mind are and how many 'ordinary' things are reckless and risky experimentation on us. I think we're still in this 19th century mindset of "conquering nature with science," which is obviously a pretty flawed premise and poor social philosophy. I'm not sure if its even possible for a capitalist technological society to leave that mindset.
Meh, I was like that prior to using THC. I will admit that it can sometimes increase brain-fog the next day. But I'd say the pros and cons are pretty 75/25 split for me.
i.e. amongst non-psychoactive hemp flower there are relaxing indicas for insomnia, functional hybrids for chronic pain, sativas for a pick-me-up, etc.
I saw your other comment and am intrigued. What do you use to extract with? Ethanol? Glycerine? Link to the tek?
As to your other comment about pharma -- I'm a believer in the right tool for the job. "Natural" is always preferred but sometimes the lads in the lab can deliver results too.
I start by grinding the flower to small pieces, or use shake which is significantly less expensive and of similar quality, and matters less if your not gonna smoke it.
Next I take 3-3.5 ounces and cook it in the oven. I've tried a few different things. Mason jar or a Pyrex pan. I've done some smaller batches in the past, but now I do 4 ounces at once, a normal size mason jar doesn't usually fit everything. Ive used pickle jars and jalapeno jars which are larger and can fit everything. I heat the oven to 245, and put it in there for an hour, rotating and shaking it every 15 to 20 minutes. Don't cover the jar too tight, as it can explode from pressure. If you use a mason jar, you can use foil with the lid instead of the normal metal cap. I also use a temperature gun on my oven to check on it, many ovens will not be accurate.
I only cook 3 ounces because I keep the rest uncooked to use later. Heating the CBDa will turn it into CBD. You probably won't get everything converted, so there will be a little bit left. You'll keep some of the terpenes if you cover what your heating. Some people believe that the terpenes in cannabis, which give it flavor and taste, can be helpful. Personally, I believe that some of them may be helpful, but some of them are harmful, especially when inhaled. Helpful in the way that they could boost the effects or create strain specific effects.
Now to the uncooked 0.5-1 ounce, I keep that so I can have CBDa and a little THCa. It's commonly thought that you need to heat these acidic cannabinoids to make them useful, but this is not the case. The acidic version like CBDa and THCa have their own effects, such as a much more powerful anti inflammatory effect, stronger anxiolytic effects, and different serotonin effects. I would also like to add that normal CBD is excellent for blood pressure. If your goal is to get high, then youll probably want to turn your THCa into THC. Leaving some uncooked will also make the final product taste very strongly of the original strain, if your into that. There's another cannabinoid called CBGa, which is the precursor to CBD and THC, when the plant is growing it goes from the enzymes it produces, to CBGa, to THCa (or CBDa), the THCa will then degrade into THC, then finally into CBN. You could make your own CBN by heating THC for a long period of time. Another cool thing you could do is convert CBD into D8-THC with citric acid. I'll also note that CBG/a is supposedly good for your gut health, inflammation, and protects your brain. Ive taken higher doses of CBG, and experienced some irritability when taking it, but I can't confirm that it was from that, I'll have to experiment more in the future.
Now onto the next step.
Next I take all of the material in the jar, cooked and uncooked, and cover it with 95% food grain alcohol. I use this because it's safe to consume. I assume I can't get 100% of the solvent out later, and using isopropyl or butane would not be safe to consume. So I cover it, shake it up, and stick it in the freezer. Shaking it every so often. You could leave it in for a few hours or days, you might get a little more out. If you leave it for more than a few minutes, you'll get a lot of chlorophyll, which will make the final product very dark due to how light interacts with it. I put it in the freezer to try and reduce this a little bit, but it probably doesn't help too much, nor does it really bother me.
After letting it soak in the solvent, I take it out and strain it into a bowl using a nut milk bag, then transfer it to a beaker. Now here is where my process can definitely be improved. Currently, I put the beaker in a pot with a small amount of water, to evaporate off the alcohol. This is kind of wasteful, as you lose the alcohol after now. Instead, and in the future, I would like to set up a distillation apparatus so that I can catch all the evaporating alcohol to use again. I just haven't got the equipment yet.
Now you should let all the alcohol be removed from the solution. I keep it at about 120-150 degrees fahrenheit. When it's done, you'll have a small amount of black oil, 15 to 20 grams of pure concentrate. I assume the efficiency is about 85-90% from what we started with. But this isn't all, the oil that is now in the beaker is very thick, it's hard to get it out in its current form. So, take the amount of concentrate you have now, and subtract it from the final amount you want to have. I turn 4 ounces into a 60 ml bottle. Usually I have about 20 grams of concentrate. So Ill use 40 grams here. I have another measuring cup, I fill this with a mixture of MCT oil, grape seed oil, and sunflower lecithin. MCT oil vs grape seed oil is a choice you can make, some people's bodies don't react to MCT oil well (nausea, usually from large doses, 1+ tbsp at once, especially if you've never had it before). I use a combination of all three. The MCT may help with absorption into your body later as well as bind together in the final product better. The sunflower lecithin is an emulsifier, which will help your body absorb it when you take it. Use at least 1/3 sunflower lecithin. These 2 oils also can have positive effects on your health.
Now you take this mixture, and heat it up until it's homogeneous. Then dump that into the existing black oil concentrate while still heating it to dilute it to your desired dosage and overall amount. Carefully shake the beaker in a circlular motion to help mix it in. I estimate that with 4 ounces, you'll get about 250-350mg of cannabinoids per gram in the oil. That range depends on your starting material potency and amount.
Something else to mention is that eating cannabinoids provides a different effect than smoking them. Your body digests and metabolizes them differently. When it comes to THC, which there will be a small but notable amount of, especially if you have no tolerance, your body will turn it into 11-hydroxy-THC. Depending on your genetics and how well you absorb it (some people can't absorb edibles at all), it will be about 5x stronger than the same amount smoked, while lasting longer. If you don't want any THC, make sure what your getting has none or very little in it. Personally, I don't like taking pure THC strains anymore, but the tiny bit that does occur in CBD dominant hemp, does boost the overall effects in good way unless I take too much.
To respond to a few other things you said. Inhaling can have a different head space effect, yes. With that said, eating it does produce a more powerful, sometimes more sedative effect, more psychedelic. The first time I made THC edibles and took them, it felt like the first time I smoked, everything was hilarious and I talked a lot. I also stopped smoking due to my lungs, unfortunately from covid, but I've found now that taking oil is a lot easier to do consistently (primarily CBD), and is much less addictive than smoking (because the act of smoking itself can be addictive), so it feels like less of a "drug".
My other comment about pharma may have come off a little harsh. I do believe there is good, but also bad. Some doctors are more empathetic and understanding, while others are there for their job, don't research outside what they already know, and push what they are told to. To be the best, you must have a genuine interest and desire to know more, maybe even an obsession, with whatever it is. Pharmaceuticals certainly have their place, as not everything can be solved with nature. Though I also believe many drugs produced by pharma are designed to be sold and make money, not to cure and help people, which is a conflict of interest.
I am a top % light sleeper - hard to sleep, inconsistent, never could sleep outside of basically ideal conditions.
Was prescribed Tirzepatide (similar to Semaglutide) and it fixed my sleep like nothing else has - I actually feel tired at a normal hour and doze off, two thing I never really did before. At the lowest dose you won't lose weight beyond the first few months, and you can maintain weight with small effort even still. So even if you are completely healthy weight, it could be useful.
I wouldn't normally think recommending a totally unrelated drug for sleep issues would be sane, but it also happens to have a ton of other positive effects for me at least. And the safety profile seems solid, esp compared to other sleep drugs. Plus not psychoactive and actually reduces your addictive behaviors especially in terms of nicotine/THC. Certainly a lot better side effect profile than THC (imo, from research).
IMO, THC can be the lesser of two evils in comparison.
Amazing stuff, much better than the sleeping pill prescription I had years back (Lunesta).
Same thing with CBD and its analogues.
CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is, so it doesn't get you high.
so falling asleep with a drug is an improvement
Or strenuous physical activity all day.
The lack of strenuous physical activity all day is a real problem with modern life. We did not evolve to be sedentary.
If it's a solid, just break it.
If you can buy a THC tincture, you can easily use dilution and volumetric dosing to titrate your doses down over time.