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Comment by pricci | Hacker News Reader

> The lemmings supposedly committing mass suicide by leaping into the ocean were actually thrown off a cliff by the Disney filmmakers.

I guess the 50s where different times

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In westerns they would tie cables to horses' legs at the right length so that they would fall in the right place as if they had been shot.

Yep the infamous “Running W” stunt. Tarantino’s talked about that quite a bit.

Obviously the horse breaks its leg and then has to be put down. Pretty vile.

So every take they’d end up killing a horse.

> So every take they’d end up killing a horse.

Horrible, but maybe not as expensive as it sounds, cgi of similar quality costs much more than a horse.

I don’t think people are expressing incredulity at the expense here!

I know. And I think it is interesting to look at how much that costs compared to what we do today. It surprised me that animals aren't that expensive, I would have guessed that killing horses would be way more expensive.

Expensive horses take expensive breeding, training, and maintenance. You can get a good draft horse (one bred for real work) for not much. And "hobby horse" isn't just a fun phrase.

I just recently learned what a ‘hobby horse’ means (in the terms of a “fun phrase” as you say). So I’m dying laughing right now lol

Horses used to be plenty, then automobiles pushed them out of their role in the order of things. They're the OG victim of automation at a species level. I imagine at the time they were making those movies, there was still a huge overpopulation of horses relative to the use humans had for them, so you know... supply and demand.

Not even close, a horse costs as much as a car.

No it doesn't, it costs a few thousand dollars. Even if you killed a horse every minute in an hour long episode it would just be in the six figures, which isn't much for special effects heavy tv-show today.

A racing pure-blood sure, but an average horse goes for a couple thousands dollars at most.

An average used car costs a couple thousand dollars too.

I was interested and based on this https://truewestmagazine.com/animal-cruelty-in-movies/ It seems that it wouldn't cripple a horse when "done right". Problem is that it seems a lot of stunt unit director didn't do it right.

Interesting aside about Errol Flynn raising the issue of animal cruelty.

Not different times, they're still at it

Yeah, you learn quickly in film school that documentaries edit footage however they like to tell a narrative. A lot of the incidents they describe happening in the wild are just multiple different situations clipped together, if you pay attention you'll notice some clips aren't even in the same place. There's even rumors recent footage of panicked animals were actually being caused by film crew drones, not anything happening naturally in the wild.

I think the "different times" was referring more to the animal cruelty than the choice to stage a scene.

Or edit a scene together in the studio.

https://www.disneydining.com/disney-world-animal-cruelty-cha...

Not so different times:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/animals-...

My pet hate regarding this docudrama where stuff that is just made up is mixed with real things and there is no way a viewer can tell the different.

Not new of course, has always happened even in books - e.g. the "people told Columbus the world was flat" myth was made up to spice up a biography.

I find it delicious that it was a Disney filmmaker who bought the lemmings off kids and let them run into the river (luckily they can swim).

The article mentions that, "If they get wet to the skin, they 're essentially dead." Reading the Wiki on them, they're quite a bizarre little species in countless ways. Highly recommended. [1]

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Maybe I'm wrong but I read that to mean that if they get completely soaked in extreme winter weather, they'll die. This doesn't seem so bizarre. Some animals, both mammals and birds, have some protection against this because their hair/feathers are both greasy and help them keep "air cushions" that prevent water from completely soaking the body -- but if that ever happens in cold weather the animal is as good as dead, since it'll die of hypothermia before it gets dry.

I may be wrong though.

Animals used to the winter survives being wet, at least large ones like moose, they fall through the ice from time to time and people help them up. Maybe lemmings are so small that it wasn't worth evolving it, but it seems like a big handicap since most animals needs to drink regularly even in the winter.

Large ones have more heat reserve due to square-cube law: surface area increases less with volume.

Yeah, I think what I said applies to small animals like birds and rodents, creatures without large fat reserves.

Yes, they can swim well and they have thick fur, I don't think jumping into a lake is inherently suicidal for them.

They are, however, in lemming years, not very afraid of predators and will even stand up and squeak furiously at you if you get close. I knew of a dog who would walk up to them, watch their tantrum display with interest, and then just chomp them up.

I think maybe that's where the "suicidal" idea comes from.

> stand up and squeak furiously at you if you get close

Looks like this, no fear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAMMicsN9A4

Amazing! Too big for his britches!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZlr5Gf9yY

City boy or girl? Me too, but I had some relatives with a farm, and some (quite a few, it would seem) farmers see animals as property and you can do to them whatever you want. If you need to cut their tail or their testicles for profit, you do it. Kill them? Sure. Put kittens in a bag with a few stones and throw them in a pond? Of course.

And that's not looking at the industrial scale at which animals are mutilated for food. Throwing a few lemmings over a cliff is insignificant.

I was with you on the first and second on, food and population control - sure. But murdering kittens for no apparent reason?

Nothing justifies murdering kittens. Not even Doom music.

The apparent reason is that you don't want to be saddled with their care and wish to be rid of them.

That is population control. Not the same as doing it because you want cool video.

I'm not sure where you are that "wild animals on my land are my property" is a popular sentiment, but it's certainly not in my neck of the woods.

Farmers here absolutely kill dangerous and nuisance animals, but it's because they are dangerous and/or pests. They also commonly hunt, both for resources and for sport. But it's definitely not acceptable to drown kittens. Anyone doing that here would be rightfully treated as a monster, regardless how rural your upbringing.

Dunno about them, but you don't have to look far in America.

Story from Georgia: I was a contractor working in a creepy old rural courthouse overnight. In the early hours of the morning, I kept seeing shadows in my periphery and thought I was hallucinating. Turned out to be a baby bat trapped in the room.

I spent the next few hours chasing it around trying to trap it with a wastebin. Eventually succeeded, called my boss and they called Animal Control. They were too busy to come out but said they'd "send someone." I stuck around and worked a double so nobody accidentally released it again; the day staff were all older ladies and it would have been pandemonium.

6 hours later, two facility maintenance workers from the city show up. I show them where it is, they say thanks and get in position around it. They proceeded to kick the can over and stomp it to death.

(That being my experience with "Animal Control" to date, I later caught a lost dog in rural California. This time, I just called the police, but they referred me to the Humane Society. Here we go again...except they showed up within an hour and collected him without incident.)

So, my older relatives with farm did actually took issue with useless animal cruelty. Killing it for food or something else necessary? Sure.

Throwing them off cliff for the purpose of entertainment? Huge judgement. And kids would get seriously spanked if they did that.

Your relatives are the abhorrent ones, not farm owners in general.

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