Photo check deposits
marco.org
marco.org
Well, the last contact with checks was, IIRC, in the 80's when I saw my mother occasionally using them and they were being phased out at the time already. This was in Europe. So, I don't think any technology to have to do with checks can ever be considered progress.
As someone from Europe that clunky check-based system of the US is simply dumbfounding. What exactly is the purpose of it? Is there no e-banking available? Over here people rarely even use banks, as in physical entities, anymore.
Part of the problem is that checks became "free" some years ago but all other alternatives charge fees. Rent is one of the biggest demands for checks, as most landlords don't want to pay Visa or Mastercard (or Paypal or Square or Mint) a percentage of thousands of dollars a month.
(Also, FWIW, in many countries in Europe two-factor authentication is incredibly common, if not expected or even legally required; it is my understanding from some business deals I was a part of that Germany, in particular, is quite the stickler on this front.)
Charges tend to happen if the payer doesn't have sufficient funds to make a payment.
(http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/Pages/Home.aspx)
Or the payer could just do a BACS bank transfer, which again tends to be free.
(http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Corporate/BacsServices/Pages/Bacs...)
Cheques are not secure. One well known scam is to order something (imagine for £2000), then overpay by cheque (say £10000). You call the seller, and explain the mistake. You say "Wait for the cheque to clear. When you have the funds could you transfer the extra money (£8000) to our account / bank transfer / etc?". The victim assumes that once the cheque has cleared the money is theirs and it's legit, they don't realise that a bank can (and will) claw-back the money from forged cheques.
The victim is down the product, and £8000.
The scammer has the product, and £8000. And because they used other means of money tranfer there's no way of getting the money back.
In the US, most banks will subsidize the $15-ish for a box of checks out of the interest earned from the money in your account. Likewise, paying the payee is also subsidized by the interest you don't receive. So Americans see checks as a way to move money without fees.
Check fraud is still a big issue, and I'm very surprised that no other payment processing company has figured out how to hide fees from customers in unpaid interest.
As for an alternative payment processing company that supports transferring money for free: if you use your PayPal balance to transfer money for a purpose that cannot be disputed (such as "I admit that I owe Bob money, and this is my payback"), they do the transfer for free.
What economic force keeps the checks "free" and charge fees on the more efficient solutions?
Checks were phased out here exactly because it's expensive and labor-intensive to process checks instead of wire transfers that have been automated for decades. It's the same reason nobody goes to a physical bank anymore (except old people): it costs a lot to do anything over the counter, be it withdrawing cash, paying bills, or... cashing checks :) You can do that free over internet. Usage of cash is going down as well but I think cash is fundamental enough that it will never disappear, though.
Wire transfers are free here and can be initiated thru internet banking and be completed the following banking day. Before internet, we had wire transfer machines, similar to ATMs. Debit cards don't cost anything either (some banks charge a yearly fee, similarly to some credit cards). It would probably cost tens of euros to cash a check here, and rightly so given the amount of labour.
Wire transfers are good. You can even buy from internet shops without a credit/debit card if they support a scheme where you make a verified wire transfer through your bank's internet service, and many shops do. The shops get online verification from my internet bank that the wire transfer has been made, so the payment is completed immediately and the shops just ship you the good.
They're actually just as effective as a wire or a credit card, except the recipient has to go through more hoops to get the cash...
Insurance is another matter though...
From https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/no_fee_checking_main?offerNa...
"Deposit@Mobile® using your iPhone®, iPad® or Android™ device. Available to qualified members.2,3"
2: 2 You must qualify for USAA's Deposit@Home® and Deposit@Mobile®; eligibility for USAA property and casualty insurance and credit qualification required. Deposits may not be available for immediate withdrawal. (3 is a trademark disclosure.)
Okay, so you have to be eligible for USAA property and casualty insurance. How do you do that?
From https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/mobile_banking_dm:
"You must have a USAA checking or savings account and:
Have an active USAA property and casualty insurance policy and be qualified for a USAA loan or credit card (not a USAA Secured Card). OR Be eligible for USAA property and casualty insurance and have an active USAA loan or credit card (not a USAA Secured Card)."
So, you must have or be eligible for insurance. How are you eligible for insurance?
From https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/why_choose_usaa_main: (click "A legacy to pass down", then "Other individuals")
"USAA auto and property insurance is not available due to membership eligibility requirements."
So, you can't use remote deposit. And yes, you really need to read through at least 4 pages on their website to find this out.
You do have to have some sort of military connection to become a member of USAA. Link: https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/pub_eligibility_task_entry
The Chase phone deposit app is so convenient for me, even given that I live in NYC where I pass 5 Chase ATMs per day, that I keep an account open with a minimum in it to avoid fees, just so I can use the phone deposit app.
Yes, the ATM deposit might be more convenient, when there are no lines, and the ATM isn't broken, and when I actually have a Chase ATM card, which I don't because I don't use them as my regular bank. If you're trying to min/max your banking experience then the Chase app is pretty nice to use as a funnel for money to other accounts.
Phone deposit has only failed me a couple of times but these seemed like back end type issues, tried again the next day and it worked fine.
What other banks allow for phone deposits ?
USAA deposit by phone is my only option unless I want to post the check to TX and wait 5 days (USAA has been my only bank since 2006 or so)
Of course, I tried to deposit a check via the Chase app while I was typing this and it failed for the first time ever for me.
Say I wanted to send money to my sister. Before this I had to actually mail a check, or worse, pay for a wire transfer. Now I can just send an image of a check via email, and she'll have access to the money before a mailed check would have arrived.
No third party brokers the transaction, and nobody extorts any fees (be they for postage, sending the wire, or receiving the wire).
The trick is to use this to enable things that just aren't possible at the bank branch or ATM.
1. A check never "clears" the same day. The check may post the same day but they take at-least 3 business days to clear. This is because all checks I am aware of use the ACH in the U.S.
2. You are never supposed to "destroy the paper check". Most institutions recommend you hold onto it for at-least 90 days.
3. It's really a challenge to OCR a check photographed by a iPhone unless the lighting conditions are absolutely perfect. Hence, it's better to ask the customer to use a scanner if that's available, but if not, only then suggest using a phone camera.
I almost exclusively use Alliant and DCU for my check depositing needs and am yet to have any issues. They do require me to use a scanner for best results, but scanning a check takes me less than a minute and I am able to import it into GNUCash as well.
Neither do I have to obsessively check if my deposits cleared, I get emails automatically about the status.
I will never go back to an ATM, unless "I need money now" and there are no places around that will take plastic.
Photo deposits is part of the future I want to be part of: I want to be part of a future where regular banking is done online allowing me to focus my time on things I like better.
You like ATM deposits? That's great. Other people prefer digital deposits. The cool thing about technology is that we have a choice.
> You like ATM deposits? That's great. Other people
> prefer digital deposits.
In regards to him having trouble scanning checks with Chase: that sounds like a problem with Chase's implementation, not the technology as a whole.
I have been using USAA's online service as my only form of check deposit for 5 years (started with flatbed scanner, now iphone). I have never had a check refused. Hundreds of them have gone through (have to re-take the photos sometimes, but they always eventually work). It works, and it works really well.
FWIW, you should always endorse your checks.
After that I've kept the checks in an envelope after writing (cashed) on the back so that I know they were deposited.
The convenience and ease of use is fantastic. I really wish my other bank (ING Direct) would support something similar.
> Sometimes, new technology is not progress.
How about – Sometimes, technology sucks.
tl;dr; this is bad implementation, not idea/technology.