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Comment by zzzeek | Hacker News Reader

do car dealers want to sell EVs ? from what I can see it's an all losing proposition for them, as EVs need only a fraction of the maintenance and repairs as an ICE car and they also likely last a lot longer. I took my Ioniq 5 to the local Hyundai dealer for it's first "check in" and what could they do, rotate the tires, refresh the washer fluid, that's it? the car is not going to have any transmission issues, fuel line issues, exhaust/muffler problems, fan belts, oil changes, and I bet the brakes will last a lot longer because I use regenerative settings on the accelerator pedal. the critical parts of the car are also sealed off from the elements. I would assume an "EV future" either will have dealers greatly shrinking their maintenance departments.

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I just bought a new car, and was very interested in EVs, so I looked around at the options in my area.

The story with every dealership I went to was the same: it's not just that they can't keep EVs on the lot, EVs and hybrids barely ever even make it to the lot. People are ordering and purchasing them sight unseen fast enough that the manufacturer cannot keep up with the demand.

Now, this may very well be something that varies by region, but based on the research I did, and what the salespeople at every dealership I went to were saying, this was the case for, at least, the entire greater Central NY region (upstate, not central NYC).

So is it a good deal for them? I don't have any direct evidence one way or another, but what I do have suggests that whether they want to sell them or not, they are selling them like hotcakes.

I've owned a Model 3 for over five years (~100K miles) and a Model Y for over 3 years (~45K miles). $0 maintenance excluding replacing the tires. This has been a game changer for me, since I perform my own maintenance on all of the vehicles I own - it's made me lazy about cars and I love it. :) Of course I cannot replace the batteries and I will have to have that done sooner or later, and who knows how much that will cost.

My friend has worked as a mechanic for some years and completed his diesel mechanic certification a year ago because the need for gasoline engine mechanics is likely going to decrease substantially before he can retire.

You missed the recent article about Hertz's maintenance and repair nightmare from attempting to run the largest publicly-known fleet of rental Teslas :)

Do you have a link to share? I also missed that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38058979

A cynic would suggest that manufacturers have made the rest of the vehicle much more complex so they can make money recalibrating sensors after windshield replacements, replacing ventilated seat fans, fixing complex pop-out door handles, etc. EVs do exist without such farkle but seem few and far between in the US anyhow.

IME in India, engine troubles happen long after problems in other systems. The "other systems" are turning into a mess of electronics like this seat:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/1619...

why then is hertz citing high repair costs for EVs ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/hertz-pulls-back-on-ev-plans...

I dont think the assertion that "EVs have lower maintenance cost" is backed by hard data yet.

And for DIYer like me who want a "right to repair" - EVs dont even have repair manuals - why would i want to buy one - and have the manufacturer own me ?

modern cars are too complex for their own good. the electricals in the car are the worst offenders here. it is too time consuming to debug and fix them.

Repair costs are high when you need to repair them, but you basically never need to repair them, so in my book it's a wash.

I've had two EVs now and never had to bring any of them to the shop. No oil change, nothing.

I'm guessing Hertz might have structural reasons to experience high service costs, perhaps because at their scale it was much more cost effective to service ICE cars in-house, which is probably not an option for their EV fleet at this time (or they haven't tooled for it?)

this is anecdotal but a friend who owns a tesla has had no repairs except 2 battery replacements - each of which would have been prohibitive out-of-warranty.

A battery expert i spoke to said that battery management is a complex mechanism, with lots of software and electronics - and it is not yet modular to enable easy repairs by the local joe mechanic

Repair != Maintenance.

EVs do have much lower maintenance costs - they basically don't need maintenance.

However, if they are damaged, they have much higher repair costs, and in Hertz' case I can see how this could dominate - I expect rental cars get frequent minor damage as they are driven a lot by people who don't know the cars well and don't care about them much.

It doesn't have to be this bad - car companies could design for repairability, but it's not a selling point and it is a way for them to claw back profits.

"car companies could design for repairability, but it's not a selling point and it is a way for them to claw back profits"

agree 100%, there is little incentive for the car-maker+dealer ecosystem to enable this.

Tesla has incentive to lower repair costs because they also sell insurance.

No, it does not matter if fixing a Tesla is expensive, as long as their insurance doesn't cost more than third party insurance. Quite the opposite - more expensive repairs probably means more margin for the insurers. They are going to get the money back from premiums anyway.

Actually all car companies have incentive to lower repair costs because people look at the cost of insurance when they buy a car, but I don't think it's a big consideration for most people when they are deciding what car to buy. It's normally a negligible cost compared to the repayments for the car.

> do car dealers want to sell EVs ? from what I can see it's an all losing proposition for them,

Outside the US, car dealers are just an extension of the manufacturers. The networks of dealerships (which are just showrooms + service locations usually, since of course you do the Tesla mode of ordering for all new cars) are just sister companies to the manufacturer. Whether or not they want to sell what HQ manufactures isn't really a relevant question for them. What a BMW reseller wants is to keep as many BMWs on the road as possible because that gives profits in sales and service (Which benefits both BMW and their sales and service org)

I doubt they like the transition. But Tesla showed that people will pay more up-front for a car that meets the qualifications you mentioned, so other automakers were forced to take the EV transition seriously if they wanted to stay afloat.

Regardless we shouldn't prop up old industries and jobs just because they predated newer, more efficient processes.

My 6 year old EV has never been back to the dealership for any “service”.

I was never good at the maintenance part of car ownership and my EV is the perfect car for me because it needs none.

just wait until the battery or motor dies on you, or you have to resell your car and no buyer wants to take on the risk of a used battery.

While EV resale prices lag ICE, they're on the rise while ICE resale is waning. Considering the lack of maintenance and not paying for gas the math almost always works out in the EVs favor if you hold onto it for 3 years or more.

It's clear you have never owned an EV so you have no idea what the risks are other than what you read online.

guilty as charged..

but isnt the article addressing the likes of me ?

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