Hacker News Reader

Comment by tarkin2 | Hacker News Reader

In fact, I find it strange when Germans, for example, have a 'perfect British accent'. Even I would say it's perfect. Problem is, no one speaks like that... except the Germans. It also goes with grammatical accuracy as well. If any German, or Nordic etc, says "With whom were you speaking" it marks them as a foreigner instantly.

View on HN

It’s not grammatical accuracy on their part, it’s the opposite, it’s a calque, a word by word translation from their native tongue.

If it was actually perfect grammatical accuracy on their part they’d be saying “Who were you talking to” or “Who were you speaking to”.

Correct is what the people say, not the opinion of literal singular English language teachers.

> If it was actually perfect grammatical accuracy on their part they’d be saying “Who were you talking to” or “Who were you speaking to”.

There is a sizable contingent of English speakers out there that continue to insist that it’s incorrect to end a sentence in a preposition. (I am not part of this group and it is fortunately shrinking over time.)

Hence Churchill's response to said contingent that "This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."

There's an old joke:

  Texan: Where are you from?
  
  Harvard Student: I'm from a place where we don't end sentences with prepositions.
  
  Texan: OK. Where are you from, jackass?

> There is a sizable contingent of English speakers out there that continue to insist that it’s incorrect to end a sentence in a preposition

That is the sort of nonsense up with which one should not put.

“With whom were you speaking” IS grammatically correct though. “Whom” is the object of the preposition “with”.

Even if you want to differentiate "who" and "whom", "Whom were you speaking with?" is more natural.

I use English according to defined grammar rules. It marks me as upper middle class and therefore trustworthy in administrative professional positions, greatly improving my life outcomes compared to someone who is not able to do so.

There's something slightly irritating about German or Dutch people trying very hard to have that perfect British accent. I can't really tell why, but it always seems affected and pretentious. I much prefer the "wooden" (Holzern in German) accent of the Swiss

Your opinion is common in language learning it seems, as most people praise a perfect accent but some get very offended by it.

I couldn't tell you why, maybe it's a feeling of lack of authenticity?

I find it impressive when someone has acquired a good accent personally since it's quite difficult to do.

I'm impressed but it's weird to compliment a non Brit on their perfect British accent when they don't sound like you, a British person...

It sounds too studied, almost a mockery of real native speakers, there's always too much of perfection in the way these learners speak that makes it sound uncanny

Interesting, yeah I can see that. A lot of modern language learning tries to get you to sound natural, but the question becomes, natural where? You start to delve into dialects, when I meet people who learned English naturally from TV and media, they often have a weird blend of dialects that constantly switches, it's kinda fun actually. One minute they have American inflections, next they're Australian etc.

When learning Japanese I was encouraged to pick a person with a dialect I prefer and listen to them a lot, as I'll likely pick up their accent and mannerisms.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com