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Comment by motohagiography | Hacker News Reader

A visual model should distinguish between:

- Levels of abstraction - A transaction - An element inventory - A process - Inputs and outputs

Among others. Given the numbers of nodes and edges, the most beautiful or consistent layout would be implied using graph layouts. When we use boxes and lines, we imply meaning to their order and sizes, which might be the case, but most often there isn't, it's just where you had space on the page.

The best diagrams are ones you could describe using graphviz/dot because each relationship is a true statement about the system. Sequence diagrams are the next best ones because they force you to close the loop in your thinking, imo.

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As an avid plantuml user, I don't think it's that simple. Graph layouts help, but it doesn't take long for automatic layouts to start to get in the way of conveying meaning, and that's even with a higher level description language, like plantuml or mermaid, let alone with raw graphviz. One can quickly start to spend more time trying to make the layout look right than actually evolving it.

Don't have a solution to it, unfortunately. When things in my head start to map too poorly to plantuml, I just consider drawio instead, but it's such a downgrade, that I try to avoid as much as I can.

Knut, Mermaid's creator here.

I agree that layout auto-adjustments in flowcharts can be problematic, especially when subgraphs represent architectural subsystems as they are not really flowcharts. :)

I'm developing a new Mermaid diagram type for more layout control, with precise block placement.

Cool! I'm still on the plantuml train, but I like how much easier mermaid is to integrate with (no need for java), so I'm happy to see it evolve!

> A visual model should distinguish between: - Levels of abstraction (...)

So much this! Most people entering the architecture trade mix infrastructure, application components, functional elements and business capabilities into the same diagram. That's ok as long as the diagram conveys the story but it complicates real fast.

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