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The official cause of Senna's crash was due to a failure of the steering column that was modified before the race. Not du to loss downforce.

Adrian Newey, the man who designed the car Senna was driving, gave this quote: ” The honest truth is that no one will ever know exactly what happened. There’s no doubt the steering column failed and the big question was whether it failed in the accident or did it cause the accident? It had fatigue cracks and would have failed at some point. There is no question that its design was very poor. However, all the evidence suggests the car did not go off the track as a result of steering column failure… If you look at the camera shots, especially from Michael Schumacher’s following car, the car didn’t understeer off the track. It oversteered which is not consistent with a steering column failure.

https://www.formulanerds.com/features/the-story-and-conspira...

There's still debate on this.

There is a very interesting video and I think it's from the official investigation. It seems to show that the steering broke before the corner and Senna tried to turn but he just kept going streight.

https://youtu.be/UfgadmP5PzY?si=CjSvAw9aGXb7uU0_

Yes, i doubt “ground vacuum effect” had anything to do with the accident as it wasn’t as popular in the 90’s.

For more info on “vacuum cars” check: https://motorsportexplained.com/ground-effect-f1/

On the other hand, absolutely unlimited performance - perhaps without a human driver - racecars would be pretty cool to watch. Extreme speed!

Grandstands etc would need to be extra secure though due to the higher speeds.

> Grandstands etc would need to be extra secure though due to the higher speeds.

So maybe then also get rid of spectators?

Spectators could follow along with FPV drones

Then we could just simulate the race based on the cars' and track's mathematical parameters, and then CGI the whole thing in Unreal Engine, and watch it in the Metaverse. No need for actual cars or drivers anymore.

Which, from a spectator experience point of view would be more interesting anyway. As you could create tracks with intersections, allow aggressive driving etc. And, looking at you F1, know immediately when a car did leave the allowed bounds. Instead of hours after the race.

Except for the lack of reality.

That could be very interesting and fun - compelling even. Many upsides. But without risk to life or limb and without a test of human (or monkey, or dog, or self aware AI, etc) emotional and psychological and spiritual and physical limits in real time, it could never be cool or sexy or glamorous or badass or epic or moving.

Put the humans into multi-axis simulators. And show them sweating. It will be the same physical battle, but without the risk to their life.

Then it won’t be the same mental battle, which means it won’t be the same physical battle.

Edit to add: you also need a lot more than multi axis simulators for acceleration. A centrifuge providing multiple Gs, for example, is a very different feeling from from being tilted backwards in a simulator.

The only point to automobile racing is the risk to life. Otherwise we’re just driving around.

No, that's not true. Racing is a game of skill. It just happens it involves some risks.

If risk was the point, people wouldn't be expending so much effort to make racing safer.

And trust me, most drivers do not have a death wish. It is all about figuring out how to learn to drive as close to limits of traction as possible without crossing it.

Racing is not a game. See, Hemingway. I’m out there every other Saturday night because it makes me feel alive.

I appreciate people trying to make it safer, but if they ever make it safe I’ll probably take up bullfighting.

This is basically what maze-racing robots are! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQbHMgK2rw

Take a moment and search YouTube for “neo Tokyo liquid television” if you would like to be entertained by a slight variation on your future of racing. I saw this when I was a kid and it resonated deeply. I hope you will enjoy it.

No need to waste compute, just estimate probabilities and go straight to the numbers.

Welcome to the start of the 2024 F1 season.

$ python3 compute_probabilities.py

$ Winner: Max Verstappen

Thank you for joining this F1 season, what an exciting year this was for the sport.

That was thrilling, thank you. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to leave the country before my bookie gets here.

Finish it off with an AI picture of him holding the cup. Complete with 8 or 9 fingers on each hand and a warped inhuman half-smile

Well at least this year was more exciting then last one

A few of the current F1 drivers already have sim setups and play driving sims as well as the official F1 video game. What you're suggesting isn't too far off.

F1 sims, as fancy as they are, are pretty useless at replicating the actual experience on the track as they don't and can't replicate the high G-forces drivers experience and which impact the deriving style required to actually perform.

They're just a super expensive video-game.

But still training hand eye coordination and reflexes even if it is “dry practice” is super useful and F1 drivers do that which is also much cheaper than training on track.

Every sport uses “dry practice “ anyway. So you argue like punching bag is useless because it does not punch back boxers still do that.

And yet, Verstappen plays them all the time and is also world class in sims. Maybe there are more similarities than you think.

Verstappen is aa bad example. He races F1 to finance his sim passion.

Hamilton was very outspoken that he dislikes the sim that it doesn't really make you a better F1 driver.

F1 drivers are good at motorsport because they've been driving in motorsport since they were 5 years old so they built decades of muscle memory on the real deal learning to feel the car with their butts, not because they play the sim all day, otherwise every Gran Turismo fan would be driving in F1.

There are a couple of examples of drivers starting in sims (though not in F1). Verstappen plans to make a GT3 team and promote good sim drivers to actual racing, so he is a good example in that his team may prove or disprove the theory.

I really like Hamilton and somewhat dislike Verstappen but I think Hamilton is wrong here. Of course physical practice is better, but surely there are some worthy drivers with access to sims but not karting at a competitive level that may be found by sim racing. Plus one can do both, and plenty of F1 drivers claim sims make them better.

I’d be irritated if not all of them go into a sim regularly.

Race car driver here: this proposal would be extremely boring. It’s amusing when there are people in the stands and it certainly can help pay the bills but we do this because it’s fun.

In the works!

https://techxplore.com/news/2022-01-self-driving-cars-histor...

>On the other hand, absolutely unlimited performance - perhaps without a human driver - racecars would be pretty cool to watch.

I bet nobody will watch it, when I was watching F1 it was already boring and many rules were added to reduce speeds and make it easier to over take, otherwise the order they start will be the order they will finish.

I guess you're right, the drama and competition is what draws viewers. An unlimited time-trial would still be pretty cool to watch, but a lot more niche.

I honestly think that no one but a programmer would ever say watching that would be cool. I have no idea what the point would even be, but then again, I don't get video game contests either.

Want to see hyper-fast races? Check RC car races.

Ground effect was used in F1 between 1978 and 1982. Ayrton Senna died in 1994.

Senna died when his car lost downforce due to mechanical fault.

No, he died because of a steering column failure, not a loss of downforce.

Edit: I read up some more and it seems that noone really knows why he lost control. My previous impression was that the steering column broke mid-corner causing him to crash into the wall.

This is from an interview with Adrian Newey who designed the car: Newey admits that he has considered the causes of the crash repeatedly over the past 17 years. "If you look at the camera shots, especially from Michael Schumacher's following car, the car didn't understeer off the track. It oversteered which is not consistent with a steering column failure. The rear of the car stepped out and all the data suggests that happened. Ayrton then corrected that by going to 50% throttle which would be consistent with trying to reduce the rear stepping out and then, half-a-second later, he went hard on the brakes. The question then is why did the rear step out? The car bottomed much harder on that second lap which again appears to be unusual because the tyre pressure should have come up by then – which leaves you expecting that the right rear tyre probably picked up a puncture from debris on the track. If I was pushed into picking out a single most likely cause that would be it."

Yes, but strictly speaking he died because he was hit in the head with a wheel.

The halo, wheel tethers, and probably a few other modern things would have improved his odds.

I was indeed thinking, didn't debris hit him in the head. I guess there wouldn't have been debris without the crash

Some form of ground effect has been in use in every single year since then. There are aerodynamic devices that channel air below the car, that keep confined there with vortices running along the car, that extract the air from behind. They even removed some limitations at the beginning of 2022 and they can run with a flat bottom now.

not sure why the mad votes exactly

to my knowledge banning ground effect devices and geometries has been a decades long game of cat and mouse which at virtually no point has resulted in an on the track reality of equal footing due to a complete absence of positive traction from active or passive ground effect features on all cars

just about every race I've ever watched has featured that year's aero controversy front and center in the commentary

F1 has been as much about engineers racing the rules as drivers racing the cars as long as I've been watching

Well, they are prototypes. Every car is different so Formula 1 has always been more about the car than about the driver, despite the hype being more about drivers.

A good driver can get closer to the limit of the car than a worse one, that's right. However if the limit of another car is 1 second better, even with an average driver that faster car is going to win against the slower one with the good driver.

So to win titles: build a very good car, hire a good driver (which will be more than happy to come), possibly win driving with one arm like Schumacher, Hamilton and Verstappen did in many of the last 20 years. But even without a star you're going to win anyway if the car is good enough. Williams won with Damon Hill, Ferrari almost won with Irvine in 1999 when Schumacher missed many races for injury.

To clarify this, active ground effect was forbidden in 1982. What is the thing the GP is talking about. The prohibition has no relation to Senna, but it was because of another accident.

Ground effect in general has been in use since the F1 cars first changed shape, and is used everywhere, not only on race cars.

> The reason F1 cars do not do this is because suction is limited in F1 for very specific reasons and it goes back to the fatal crash of Ayrton Senna.

That's just completely wrong.

You are confusing the function of springs and shock absorbers. Yes, springs can be compressed, but that is their basic function. Shock absorbers on the other hand should be configured so that they never reach the end of travel.

You seem to be saying that the down pressure causes the suspension to be compressed, but the basic design must cope with that, either by fitting heavier springs, or using a self-leveling system.

> I would suggest that if you are allowed a fan that sucks air from under the car then you can easily achieve pretty much any acceleration.

Or if you point the fan backwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuJz5zkIiUQ

If you need a video for that: https://youtu.be/e21ZjwZGjiQ?si=r_oHvxYhiWvg7cRa

See also: the "Fan Car" that was not banned but would have been;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOxlKfcSs5o