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Comment by PaulKeeble | Hacker News Reader

They don't mention it in this article but the big positive going for Sodium batteries is the cost, they are half the price of li-ion per KWH and about a third the price of Li-Pho. There are already quite cheap Sodium battery based cars out from BYD and while they are the lower range end of things (200 miles) they are also considerably cheaper.

So I think Sodium will find its way into the lower range EVs and home/grid storage since its so much cheaper. But I don't imagine we will want less power in phones or laptops as sodium is bigger and heavier.

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I would love a lower end rickshaw/golfcart tier small ev. It would be great for trips and errands around town you could do on lower speed roads. I don’t need a 5000lb behemoth.

Something like this? https://urbanarrow.com/business-bikes/cargo/

This is a two-wheeler without any protection from weather. But it's about the right weight class.

For protection from the elements there are things like the Veemo[1], I guess compared to the tiny EVs you do get a little exercise too (but you have even less collision protection, not much different from riding a normal bike).

1: https://veemo.ca/

Bikes are a place where weight matters more than in a small car, at least for the user. Although I guess some ebikes have motors that don't require pedaling.

Something like this? I just saw this somewhere this week, maybe even here. Dropping links below...

https://www.squadmobility.com/

https://electrek.co/2022/12/06/squad-solar-electric-city-car...

> Squad Regular Production PRE ORDER 50.00 €

Am I missing something?

Oh, I see in the text below:

> Regular production Squad. Price estimation €6250 ex. tax.

Is this a common thing with EU sales pages, or are they just being extra weird?

Citroen Ami

https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami

...and seating a family of 4. Top speed 30, maybe 40 mph, range of 20, I'm in the market.

I own a cargo bike, and it's great mostly, alas not when the weather is inclement.

I think what you’re looking for is an older used Nissan leaf

My problem is, if EV is not going to work for 100% of my use cases, I need a second car. But if I need a second car then it doesn't make sense to overthink the EV, any will do. What would be really awesome is if I could have one car and swap the power train easily, but that's just fantasy talk.

Hiring a car for specific trips is probably much better, depending on the % of those use cases. That goes for other factors like towing capacity too.

Cars are already very expensive for something with such a low utilisation rate.

Towing actually seems in practice an awful place for renting. Use case is taking kids trailer camping: UHaul at least offers only trucks with (a) single row seating, and (b) no brake controller. Even if spouse did drive, the lack of the brake controller is a showstopper.

If someone knows where I can rent a crewcab with RV brake controllers, I'm all ears. I'd love to not have to own a tow vehicle.

I have one, and they are as great as you expect. Used 2013 Nissan Leaf's can be had for $5k or less.

There's the Arcimoto FUV. I'd consider it a step up from golfcart/rickshaw as it's meant to go at highway speeds, but it's much smaller/lighter than a regular car.

Death trap on American roads, unfortunately.

They are also one band lower on the periodic table. That's a lot of mass, and the ionization metrics are worse.

Lithium is only a small fraction of the mass of Li-ion batteries. Also, Li does not change oxidation state in Li-ion batteries, so its energy of ionization doesn't affect the voltage of the cell.

Won't it at least affect the redox electrode potential?

I don't see why that would be expected to be in lithium's favor, though.

Why do you say they don't mention the cost? I'm sorry but like that's what the ENTIRE article is about, the cost savings of sodium batteries over lithium.

The only mention they have of cost is

"Since the chemical components are cheap, a scaled-up industry should be able to produce batteries that cost less than their lithium counterparts."

They do not mention its a half to a third the price of the two prevailing technologies and they they have weaselled it with "should". It does cost less already, you have been able to buy sodium ion batteries on aliexpress for months and the cars are already out from BYD and many more are scheduled later this year and into next.

The article is mostly about the geopolitics of the materials.

So I stand by they don't mention it, I read that article and I felt this was the key missing context as to why Sodium batteries are going to matter.

For me, the biggest benefit is the dramatically improved environmental profile. You drop a lithium battery in a body of water and besides the potential for some interesting pyrotechnics, you also have a moderately bad environmental pollution situation. I expect the situation to be much better with a sodium based battery.

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