Toyota Prius on LA Craigslist Has a Catalytic Converter Cage Like a Prison | Hacker News Reader

Toyota Prius on LA Craigslist Has a Catalytic Converter Cage Like a Prison

thedrive.com

33 pointsPaulHoule53 comments

Toyota options their cars with a built-in cat shield now.

The interesting thing in our area was that the majority of cat thefts ended up being part of one state-wide ring. It is so hard to get money for them at scrapyards now that it turns out all of them were ending up in one guys' garage. And because he couldn't scrap them either, he just ended up using their value as collateral for other criminal enterprises.

Toyota should be recalling every Prius to have a CatLoc or similar fitted.

As an owner of two Prii that have both had their cats stolen I find it astonishing that they are admitting there is such a fundamental design flaw with their vehicles but only making the fix optional.

Similarly to Kia and Hyundai, and their incredibly-hot-wireable cars.

If we only had a government agency that could hold these companies to account for anti-consumer design.

Perhaps we could form a similar agency that could find and prosecute those stealing the catalytic converters.

Isn't that local law enforcement? Or have they decided that's not their job anymore?

They will not respond to car thefts, break-ins, or hit and runs. They will not even respond if you have a GPS tracker, video of the people stealing your car with clear faces, and the coordinates lead to an obvious chop shop in someone's back yard.

So what happens if someone figures out a simple way to bypass immobilizers?

You can always look back at something and say that it's dumb or that the fix was obvious, but back when those cars were made, they were cheap, and theft wasn't as big of a problem. Did you notice that they weren't getting stolen until the flaw ended up being broadcast all over?

Just about every Honda from the 70s through the 2000s can be easily stolen. All you need is a key from any other Honda. I've unlocked my Hondas and my friend's with my other Honda's keys tons of times. We even moved my friend's Nissan pickup across our high school campus with my other friend's Sentra key. Should we go back in time and go after them too? There are tons of easy tricks to steal just about any car, this is just the one that got publicity.

I mean, if they should have designed them like this, why did insurance companies choose to insure them in the first place? They are the first people who should be aware of the anti-theft measures in a car, and charge accordingly. Instead, they look back and go "woops, we didn't know this would be a problem, so now we're dropping Kias and Hyundais" It's literally their job to assess risk, and even they didn't think that the missing immobilizer was a problem.

I wouldn't call "having a catalytic converter" installed in an industry standard manner a "fundamental design flaw."

The design flaw is industry wide. Unskilled theives are able to remove thousands of pounds worth of components from cars in minutes with simple tools. This is something the car industry needs to fix.

There is no design flaw. The catalytic converter is mounted in the same place as on most cars. It's larger than on most cars and tends to get less corroded, both consequences of the hybrid design, but that was not a problem when the cars were new. These thefts mostly affect the second-generation Prius, which was discontinued in 2009.

The "design flaw" is that, in the few years leading up to 2021, the price of platinum nearly doubled, the price of palladium nearly quadrupled, and the price of rhodium increased more than tenfold.

I claim no expertise. These facts aren't hard to find.

> There is no design flaw.

I love my promaster... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK4FlN2qYjM

But they’re making the fix to their _current vehicles_ optional ! How can you interpret this as anything other than a design flaw ?

They’re still selling vehicles that are vulnerable to having very valuable components removed with ease in minutes without any particular skill required, and they are admitting this is a problem by selling an optional fix for it.

Catalytic converter theft is so common in Southern California, it happened to my mom twice. It's so upsetting because she doesn't have very much money and it's expensive to get a new one. It really hurts to be hit with a random bill for a few thousand dollars.

A "friend of a friend" basically got their car totaled this way. At the time their converter was stolen, there was a several-month waiting list for a new one. They could get a temporary car, but could not afford a second parking spot. They had to buy a new car.

My father got a Tesla after his Prius’s cat was stolen for the third time. I’m guessing there isn’t a resale market for lithium-ion packs?

https://jalopnik.com/stealing-toyota-prius-batteries-is-now-...

Oh, there is one. It just takes longer with higher risks.

Tesla battery packs are structural, it's easier just to lift the car on a truck and dive away than it is to cut it out.

A catalytic converter can be cut off with a battery powered cutter in under 30 seconds easily.

Not sure why this is news worthy. When my Prius catalytic converter was stolen, the mechanic i went to in Silver Lake offered to put one of these on my car and I did. A lot of mechanics in LA will do this for the car models that get them stolen frequently

> Not sure why this is news worthy

It’s a phenomenon unique to specific models in specific parts of the country.

Why don't people steal them from other cars? Why isn't it a problem in other geographies? Do cars in CA need a different cat because of CARB?

> Why don't people steal them from other cars?

They do. The Prius is overrepresented "because their catalytic converters contain more unused precious metals than standard gasoline-powered vehicles" [1].

> Why isn't it a problem in other geographies?

It is [2]. It's just a bigger problem in California [3].

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/on-your-side-prius-i...

[2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-...

[3] https://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Insights/Catalytic-Con...

They do and it is. Guessing but it likely comes down to the distribution of Prius throughout the US

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2021/11/19/thefts-of-...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/driveon/2013/01/22/toyota-pri...

> Guessing but it likely comes down to the distribution of Prius throughout the US

Didn't think of it before. But these operations must benefit from the economies of scale such a concentration of Prius's drives.

1. some cars are easier to get under, or have more expensive cats (hybrids fit the second category)

2. cats are usually traded for drugs, so such operations are more common in areas with more drug problems (the kind of people who can recycle them tend to have drug connections, and the kind of people willing to grab them tend to be addicts)

This is rebar. It's just as easy to saw/grind through rebar as it is exhaust piping. Sure, your car is less likely to get picked on than someone elses if they have this issue, but it really shouldn't take that much longer to saw through the rebar pieces with a recip saw if this was encountered in the wild.

It is to slow an attacker down and discourage them. The only absolute prevention is a vehicle without a catalytic converter.

Indeed. You can find videos of catalytic converters being cut out in under a minute.

Obviously it will slow the attacker and discourage them. I'm commenting on the seller of this vehicle stating it is "Catalytic converter-theft-proof". It most certainly is not.

“Theft resistant” would be more accurate.

> It's just as easy to saw/grind through rebar as it is exhaust piping

Rebar is much denser stuff than the thin muffler material. It takes less than a second to cut through a muffler with a cutoff wheel. Meanwhile it takes 5-10s with rebar. And that's of it doesn't eat your blade in the process.

You are going to have to cut at least 10 pieces of rebar to get that thing out, so you are looking at over at probably 2 minutes of cutting time alone.

The easier the crime, the less deterrent you need to avoid the criminal.

We watched someone steal the catalytic converter from our car years ago. It took them about two minutes. In fact, we didn’t even realize what they had don’t until after they did it.

Exhaust piping is thin and easy to cut through with a saws all. This cope cage would require massive amounts more of sawing. Both making it obvious what you’re doing and making it fair more challenging. More places, more time, more batteries, etc, all make it not worth doing .

I'm planning on moving back to LA within the next few months after having moved away in 2007, and the plan is to not own a car, at least, for the first few months. Instead, I'll take Ubers or the Metro train for cross-town trips, and walk for local trips (grocery store, etc). If I want to take a roadtrip or something, I'll use Getaround or a similar service.

I have no idea how realistic this will be, but my previous experience of living and driving in LA caused a level of stress that I have no interest in repeating. I already hated car ownership before the spike in catalytic converter thefts, due to gas prices, sitting in traffic, dealing with road rage from other drivers, insurance costs, the risk of your car getting keyed / stolen / broken into, etc. I've decided I'd rather pay a premium to Uber / Doordash in order to avoid all that.

I'm giving this plan 3 months to play out. If the lack of a car proves unrealistic, I'll probably relocate to NYC, where I know I won't need one. That's how much I dislike owning a car.

EDIT- I'll be living in East Hollywood, near Barnsdall Art Park. Looks like there are grocery stores, bars, restaurants, etc. nearby. I work remote, so I'm thankfully able to avoid daily commutes.

Very viable in fact especially if you are fine with taking the whole lane while biking. Biking in LA rush hour is actually faster than driving on surface streets at that time thanks to being able to lane split.

Depends where you are, if you live in one of the hubs where you have shopping etc nearby it can be workable but still not very convenient. LA is too sprawley so if you used to spend enough time in a car to aggravate you, expect to spend way more time and something like $2k/month on ubers.

I lived in Venice and just never went anywhere east of Lincoln. That worked pretty well for not needing a car.

I have only a single experience walking in the LA area, but I recall all the traffic-light intersections with long waits to be very tiresome. A 2.5 km walk to a supermarket and back to my hotel seemed to take ages longer than in other countries. There were no other pedestrians in sight, and maybe it was all in my head, but I felt like the drivers at stoplights were scrutinizing the weirdo who was walking with his shopping.

Missing Persons - Nobody Walks in L.A. (!)

https://youtu.be/80WyBxo0Hto?si=IeAAD7BLk7wF7I_S

true now and thirty years ago ?

Thanks for that hilarious song. I think the stereotype was well established by the late 1960s: in Antonioni’s film Zabriskie Point, a character’s walking through the LA sprawl instead of driving is part of the overall depiction of the bad situation he’s in.

Just want to toss out there that if you don't like driving a car or owning one, but still want to have a reasonably navigable city to live in that's not quite the imposing canyonscape and non-stop noise of New York city, and arguably better access to different kinds of interesting opportunities, DC punches well above its weight class here.

Thank you! I hadn’t considered DC until now, this is good to know.

For what it's worth, the "imposing canyonscape and non-stop noise of New York city" applies only to certain areas and can be largely avoided if you work from home... from where I sit writing this comment in my apartment in the Park Slope neighborhood of Brooklyn, all I see and hear through my open windows are birds chirping and a quilt of fall leaves. Catalytic converter theft does seem to be a problem, though, for those who own a car and park on the street.

I don’t know why you’d want to live in the LA area and not own a car. One of the things that is actually nice about southern california is the ease with which you can go to the beaches, the mountains and other beautiful places and realistically you need a car to do these things. You don’t have to drive at rush hour.

Some good news about catalytic converter thefts:

"3 Plead Guilty in $600 Million Catalytic Converter Theft Ring"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/17/us/california-family-guil...

I installed a cat shield on my truck that doubles as a skid plate. Took 15 mins to install. Easy peace of mind.

I installed the cat shield when it came out. Turns out there are 6 versions now, mine was version 1... Converter was stolen from my Prius in my front yard right around the cat shield.

Based on the video it did nothing to slow them down.

do you know what gauge steel? i'd suggest 1/4 inch and above. anything less can be cut with a 18v angle cutter.

That raw rebar will likely rust after exposure to rain and puddles. Why not to have had it painted right after the installation?

It's in California.

I would hope it’s at least galvanized.

The high price of defunding the polce

Despite them claiming defunding, the public budget clearly shows they've only been getting more money, year over year: https://abc7news.com/where-police-departments-defunded-how-d...

Wow, does this add a lot of weight to the vehicle and would that reduce its efficiency?

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