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Comment by Solvency | Hacker News Reader

$6 million in personal wealth is middle class? Woof!

$6 million x 4% safe withdrawal rate = $240,000 a year. It's enough for comfort, but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/takes-middle-class-americas-l...

You guys. Median income in the USA is about 76k per year (according to https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). 230k will quite literally put you in the top 10% of income earners in the USA, and probably much higher elsewhere.

Sure and 76K will put you in the top 1% in sub-Saharan Africa.

I think you are missing the point. In most of the US, there simply aren't enough opportunities to make 6M. To make 6M in the first place, you have to be in a high CoL place like SFBA or NYC. Or at least that was the case until very recently.

And once you put roots down in a high CoL place and have a total wealth of 6M, it is much harder to uproot and move somewhere else. Barring maybe a few who came from low CoL areas and still have roots and connections there.

I don't think they are missing the point, really - the average income in NYC is still "only" about 100k.

Choosing to live in more expensive parts of the city and for 2.5 times that may open up lots of opportunities, and that's all good. You just are just butting up against the realm where calling yourself middle class becomes silly. People have a weird psychological affinity to self-identifying this way, but "I know a bunch of people who make 10x what I make", isn't really a good argument for it. Having a few million in assets definitely puts you out of the running, which is where you are likely to end up if you have this sort of salary for a while and aren't stupid with it.

> but it's still considered a middle-class income in the more expensive parts of the country.

Middle class is explicitly not about passive income. If you are living off "safe withdrawal rate", you are wealthy, almost tautologically.

In extreme versions (e.g. some of the FIRE folks) you may be living some version of a "middle class lifestyle", but that's not the same thing. It fundamentally changes the options and opportunities you have.

Wait what? I never said anything about retiring on 6 million. Anyone who can make 6 million in the first place could most certainly make $240,000 a year in a lower stress job for the rest of their life while sitting on an incredible fortune that continues to generate wealth over time at 5% interest.

This person has effectively "won" at life and is far outside of middle class.

If you don't have to work, you aren't middle class.

I think the 6million is aspirational.

As painful as it is for some people to hear this - yes, $6 million in personal wealth is middle class.

If you have to work a 9-5 for somebody else to survive then you're working class, not middle class.

That is not the traditional definition of middle class in the United States.

The traditional American dream was a middle class life: stable career, single income family, house in the suburbs and a nice pension check when you retire.

Fair to point out that that is a bygone era and maybe you do need $6 mill now, but maybe we need a different name than “middle class” to describe it.

That is the original meaning of the term middle class - a class that does not need to sell its labor to a boss to survive but who is also not part of the idle rich crowd.

In pre-revolution France, yes.

But not in the United States.

We're rapidly approaching the pre-revolution France when it comes to income inequality and political division.

Regretfully I would have to agree.

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