TSA let a gun on flight: WA state senator arrested in Hong Kong | Hacker News Reader

TSA let a gun on flight: WA state senator arrested in Hong Kong

seattletimes.com

17 pointsthrow738 comments

Let’s blame the underpaid TSA wage slave and not the WA state senator who apparently smuggled the gun into the flight - accidentally or not.

I say blame them both. TSA servants are more than complicit in the abuse of rights.

Wage slave? Seriously?

How is a gun-shaped object made out of dense metal not instantly picked up by the X-ray machine at security? I know security theatre and all, but that's pretty blatant.

Once Wilson landed in Hong Kong, he alerted customs authorities to the gun, and was arrested.

Ooops.

No way I'd volunteer an illegal weapon in China. Not only is it a very serious crime, but China would salivate at the opportunity to make an example out of this State Senator, and by extension the US.

Would have been smarter to empty the gun, take it apart, and dump the pieces in different trash cans that aren't under surveillance. Wether the trash on the plane or a toilet before customs check.

As for the TSA missing it, I remember reading a very long thread on a discussion board about people who accidentally brought weapons in prohibited places (planes, over borders, etc). I was shocked at the number of stories. People bringing handgun on planes. Bringing firearms into Canada or Mexico by car. Plenty of stories of people just disposing of them before heading back to the US.

>Would have been smarter to empty the gun, take it apart, and dump the pieces in different trash cans that aren't under surveillance. Wether the trash on the plane or a toilet before customs check.

1. This is China, not North Korea. China isn’t salivating at the thought of detaining a lowly state senator. I don’t see the motivation for China to do a show of force on a minor government official.

2. The failure of this plan is way more risky and could actually trigger an international issue. What do you do when a janitor finds a disassembled gun in the trash and they determine it was left by a state senator? That is way more suspicious.

1. There are several Western civilians who have been detained in prison for years in China over false charges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...

https://www.reuters.com/world/blinken-actively-talking-about...

2. I disagree that it's more risky. Dispose of the gun on the plane. How could they possibly link it to a passanger?

The arrest of Michael Spavor was in retaliation from the US detaining Meng Wanzhou over similarly flimsly charges. It's not something that was done at random or as a show of force. If a chinese national came to the US with a gun accidentally I wouldn't advise them to trash it in the bathroom because Meng Wanzhou was detained once.

>How could they possibly link it to a passanger?

The serial number. Unless the state senator is holding an unregistered gun I can't imagine it would be difficult to link it to him. And if is traveling with an unregistered gun, then he's already knowingly breaking the law; and he might as well break more laws.

Michael Spavor was arrest in retaliation for the arrest of the Huawei executive in Canada. And was promptly released when the Huawei executive was released.

This state senator actually committed a crime. A very serious crime in China. One that people spend significant lengths in prison for. What stops China from putting them in prison then using them as a pawn for US-China relations (which are particularly hot right now)?

The answer is nothing.

> The serial number. Unless the state senator is holding an unregistered gun

Guns aren't registered in the US. Serial numbers are recorded at sale, but there is no database.

And China certainly won't have access to serial numbers should they find it. You think the US will give that information to a country that is holding a member of the government in prison?

Or if the gun is then linked to a crime in China, then traced back to a foreigner disposing of the weapon irresponsibly?

He did the right thing, own up to his mistake right away, ensuring the weapon is kept secure at all time since its discovery.

How would a legal gun from the US be linked to a crime in China? It's in different pieces that there is no chance a single person will find all of them and assemble the weapon?

Your theory makes no sense at all.

TSA fails about 75%-95% of their routine red team checks. That includes bombs and guns making it through security undetected.

It's security theater, nothing more.

We need to abolish the TSA already

Then you would have 500k unemployed individuals. What president would do that? TSA is the greatest jobs program in American history.

Yes. The dude made 3 mistakes: packing a gun, volunteering incriminating information in a totalitarian country, and embarrassing the state of Washington. WA voters deserve better representation by someone who isn't so reckless.

Happens all the time: https://lee-phillips.org/dullesRevolver/

f he's too dumb to know that different countries have different laws, then he's not good enough to be a US Senator.

Imagine having him as your representative. That wouldn't inspire any trust in him for me at all.

Ownership and carrying a firearm is a legal thing here in US. While the TSA should have caught it, they are people that make mistakes. Other countries don't share the same laws but they should make considerations where travel is concerned, especially in a situation like this where it seems to be a mistake and it was voluntarily reported at the earliest reasonable time.

Granted, people should be far more aware of what they pack when getting on a plane, and TSA wants people to get "a wake up call", I don't think this is going to have that effect. Unfortunately I think the wake up call that will come from this is, if you're in the same situation continue to conceal it or dispose of it secretly to avoid this nonsense.

A more reasonable approach, considering he voluntary reported the mistake would have been too confiscate it for the duration of the stay and then return it upon leaving the country ensuring it's packed properly for air transport.

At least he can now point to the fact that he voluntarily turned it in as pretty solid evidence that it was an honest mistake.

Imagine if he had been caught by TSA instead. He would likely have been arrested just the same (like in these cases [1], which all happened in the past couple of weeks), but now he has a lot more explaining to do because the "testimony of his memory" is not publicly verifiable.

[1] https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2023/10/17/tsa-offic...

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2023/10/23/tsa-preve...

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2023/10/13/nassau-co...

You should do more research on these cases the TSA does stop a number of firearms but the number of people who are actually fined and or arrested is quite small. Because the TSA does take into account that carrying and transported some firearms is legal and while it is not legal to carry them past the TSA checkpoint people can forget them in their bag because it's the same bag they use when they're not flying.

A vast majority of these cases simply result in the person being questioned and then returning the firearm to be properly placed in a checked bag but not allowing them to cross the checkpoint with it.

It's not just firearms that are illegal to bring past the TSA checkpoint knives and other such "weapons" are as well. The TSA likes to tout their numbers because it makes foolish people feel safe. In reality the number of people with bad intent that they stop from bringing weapons on board is effectively zero and this is by their own admission. I myself would travel weekly and I had a multi-tool with a knife on it one week that I had forgotten was in my bag. The TSA found it pulled it out and let me on my way. Yes they could fine someone, but considering that this is legal behavior just not in this very strange area they do not push this issue unless there is egregious violations because they are not confident that they would win in court. They are confident that they could win in the fact that they can limit the area but not fines in jail time.

A gun has only one purpose: to kill. I'm disinclined to give people any kind of leeway when it comes to mistakes with firearms.

At least the damn thing didn't discharge mid-flight.

Wow really? One purpose?

Did you ever hear of target practice? Or marksmanship? You do know it’s an Olympic event right? Do you feel the same about archery? Or darts? Clearly whoever made darts so sharp and pointy was making a statement that they exist only to puncture skin, right?

I stand by what I said.

Glad to have you confirm you are indeed clueless about guns and their uses.

Discharge during flight... You have the classic movie understanding of firearms. Firearms do not accidentally discharge without them being played with.

You know what, you're right - I did the classic passive voice thing. I should have written "At he didn't accidentally discharge the damn thing mid-flight."

I agree with that sentiment because not knowing where your firearm is, is a very bad thing. Because if you don't know where your firearm is you cannot be confident of its status if it is loaded or not. That being said, I still don't think the actions of Hong Kong were proportionate in this regard. That's a total opinion people are free to disagree on but if the goal is to reduce problems then having a honest mistake that was reported as soon as possible receive a high punishment does not encourage people to rectify their mistakes as soon as possible. It actively encourages the opposite to conceal the mistakes or to dispose of it on the plane before he left. The concealing of the mistakes will always result in worst outcomes for everyone.

How, exactly, do you imagine that would happen?

He did admit to realizing he had the gun when he reached in to his bag mid flight. We don't know the state of the gun, was it loaded, was it secured in a holster with a covered trigger, etc... But how this could happen is, if the gun is loaded and it's loose without a covered trigger, and you don't realize it's there then reaching in to your bag and moving things about searching could very well trigger an accidental discharge.

I'm not saying there should be no accountability for his mistake, because not being aware of where your firearms are is very serious thing especially if you're choosing to carry one. I just don't think this action by HK is in proportion to the crime. It would have been better to seize and return it and let the TSA issue a fine.

Killing is not always bad, murder is. (Common mistranslation of a commandment).

According to the article he violated American law as well. He put it in his carryon while "According to the TSA, firearms can only be brought on commercial flights if they are unloaded, packed in a locked, hard-sided case and checked."

No. If people are too chickenshit to leave the house without their emotional support firearms, then they alone should have to bear the consequences of those actions.

I've managed to fly on airplanes for 45 years now without packing anything that would go against the TSA rules. Surely an actual legislator, who should be held to a higher standard anyway, can handle the same amount of responsibility. I'm sure this Republican state senator would have felt the same way if it was a basketball player getting busted for a vape pen in a Russian airport instead.

The difference with your vape pen analogy was that that basketball player intentionally brought an illegal substance into the country thinking they could not be held responsible for it. This senator did an accidental thing that was reported to the authorities as soon as it was prudent to do so.

If your basketball player, of who we all know we're talking about, accidentally carried it into the border of Russia and then surrendered it to customs saying I brought this illegal substance accidentally I would be on the same side of showing a leniency to encourage this kind of voluntary surrender of contraband.

As would any reasonable person because getting people to voluntarily follow the rules is much better than doing it through force of terror which encourage this in them to hide the fact they are doing it such as your basketball player example did.

> emotional support firearm

Do you lock the door to your home at night?

In Boy Scouts, we have a motto, "Be prepared." Why do anti-2A people regularly belittle people who carry guns? How is it any different than carrying a pocket knife or locking your doors? You are preparing for any situation the world might throw at you. The likelihood that someone will break into your home is low, so why lock the door? Is it an emotional support lock?

Locking your door at night is extremely unlikely to have any life threatening downsides. I suppose you could concoct a scenario where you live with someone with an altered mental status and the locked door prevents them from escaping during a fire, but that's reaching.

A gun at rest, which this case was, is also extremely unlikely to have any life threatening downsides. What is your point?

Are you trying to claim that locking your door at night, and carrying a firearm daily, both result in the same amount of risk of life threatening downsides? Because I would very much disagree with that statement.

Yes, because a gun that sits in a holster with a safety on is just as likely to kill you as a door is. Guns don't shoot themselves.

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