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Comment by moron4hire | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if that would do anything for my plantar fascitis...

I made a mistake in shoe choice for a vacation one year, before I knew how much my wife absolutely insists on walking at least 10 miles a day. That was 8 years ago and I still have pretty severe pain almost every morning.

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Take this with a bag of salt, but I've heard people get notable improvements in joint, feet, leg health from switching to barefoot shoes. They also tend to be extremely comfortable. I've been using them exclusively ~5 years and ran a half-marathon in them. For what it's worth, a physical therapist told me my feet are remarkably muscular. I like the UK manufacturer Freet, btw.

Consider my perspective: I switched to barefoot shoes to prevent problems I didn't have and wrecked my knee to where I had to quit running entirely for ~6-7years. I'm finally able to run now again though but I'm never trying that experiment again.

+1. I gave them a try during the pandemic and it led to some knee pain. Thankfully I switched back before causing serious damage. I’m sure that they work well for some people but they can also hurt.

People go too hard. If you're in your 20s, starting at ten minutes a day and working up to 90 minutes over the course of 18 months is a reasonable rate of change.

Tendons and ligaments do not adapt at the same rate as muscles. Nor do articulation patterns.

I never it past twenty minutes and have myself plantar fasciitis with barefoot shoes.

My god, yes. I had knee and ankle pain while running, then also while walking. Too much padding was allowing me to walk incorrectly. After being ‘prescribed’ flat, flexible, low-stack shoes, all the pain went away. My toes are more spread out and my abductors are thicker. Nice gains!

(Still, your mileage may vary, I included lots of exercise specifically for the transition. And still run in Altras.)

In Born To Run they cite a study that surprised it's own authors. The more expensive the running shoe, the higher the rate of injuries i.e. the better the damping the weaker the foot and legs. And another one that showed the impact on the leg is 7 times higher in running shoes than barefoot. On mobile may provide links later.

[edit] Unable to find the one i searched but found this article claiming a 2-3x times bodyweight impact on the legs when wearing shoes.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/01/barefoot-runn...

[edit]

Another great study found while searching

> A large majority (68%) of runners participating in the study experienced no new injuries after starting barefoot running. In fact, most respondents (69%) actually had their previous injuries go away after starting barefoot running.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209525461...

I know! This and ‘Exercised’ are what got me running. Both excellent, evidence-based books. I run in Altras for the transition, but hope to eventually have the legs for running in something that qualifies for barefoot (rise/stack/flex).

I am not an avid runner or hiker, but I do both occasionally. I find that I am far more comfortable after a day of walking or hiking on level ground if I'm barefoot. However running barefoot on any surface other than sand is painful in both my feet and knees.

I suppose that different activities require different footwear.

> I like the UK manufacturer Freet, btw.

Thanks for the recommendation, might give em a try. Tested some brands so far, stayed with Vivobarefoot.

[edit] Disclaimer: Repeat customer

There is no surer way to destroy my feet than to walk around barefoot in even my house.

I beat the shit out of my plantar fascia when I took to longboarding one summer.

I basically had to stop any recreational walking for a year. I tried the Vibram FiveFingers and I think they helped (yes, I know about the lawsuit: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-27335251), but my equation for recovery is rest + time then gentle strengthening (and luck I guess, in the case of my plantar fasciitis). And ergonomic everything wherever possible to prevent future issues before they occur.

I have one particular pair of dress shoes that are the most comfortable for me right now, even more so than my sneakers. I think it might be the rise of the heel, plus they were always pretty comfortable getting the start. I basically heal over the week while I'm sitting at work and then redamage over the weekend when I'm taking my kids out to parks.

I am NOT anyone with relevant credentials, just a lot of running over the last 40 some years in a lot of shoes. That said, I no reason to think that VaporFlys would help with plantar fasciitis. I hypothesize that it's the energy return (which is energy not pounding the legs) is what saves the legs, and I don't know that help plantar problems. And the shoes are designed around running, not walking.

Mainly, though, is they're $250 a pair. That's a pretty pricey experiment without some bit of evidence, even if anecdotal, that they might work for your problem.

Good luck, though. I know plantar fasciitis is a tough one to treat.

My thinking is that a spring that can provide power also absorbs power. Basically a low-pass filter, like a capacitor. IDK. I've tried the socks, the boots you wear while you try to sleep but can't because they itch too much, and all kinds of shoes. Honestly, I'm at the point where I'll try just about anything.

> My thinking is that a spring that can provide power also absorbs power.

An ideal spring (or a capacitor) should not absorb any energy.

While an ideal spring may not exist, the foot itself might be the next best thing suited to that goal. It’s full of nerves that allow the brain to make micro adjustments, as well as muscles for executing those compensations in real time, based on feedback thats coming from the ground.

Anecdata, which I welcome you to ignore: A plantar fasciitis sufferer I know got substantial relief by walking around barefoot in the house at every opportunity. This helped because the tissues in the foot were actually too loose and flexible, which was the root cause of the complaint. The fascia was rolling around all over the place and becoming inflamed as a result. Doctor-prescribed stretching regimens and arch supports had actually made the condition worse. A physical therapist recommended the correct course of action, which was almost exactly the opposite: walking barefoot helped tone and strenghten the feet, and the inflammation subsided.

Hey there! I don’t know what you’ve done to treat it so far, but I am somebody who went through a year and a half of very painful plantar fasciitis after a few years of moderate pain. I tried every single solution under the sun and am actually “cured”! Some unsolicited input, if you want:

1) Kuru tennis shoes with an insert for PF are excellent. 2) Oofos slippers by my bedside even today. They provide such good relief 3) aleve > other pain meds 4) the PF splint which stretches out your foot cN work wonders

I ultimately had to get my plantar fascia released, my inflammation had just become so severe there was no other option. I’m really glad I did it though, it’s been completely gone ever since. My foot feels fantastic now, though the recovery was a little long. I was walking around after a few weeks but I didn’t feel 100% until probably eight or 10 months out. I still use all of the above and it has yet to return. But they were also incredibly effective at managing my pain/inflammation. I just had them recommended too late in the process.

> ultimately had to get my plantar fascia released

What does this mean?

Having a surgeon physically cut the plantar fascia muscle.

It’s an outpatient procedure where they, to be super simplistic about it, cut the plantar fascia and have it regrow. When successful, the inflammation that has been recurring is essentially “removed” as a result. The new tissue doesn’t just start with it. They told me the recovery would be 2 to 3 months, but it was definitely longer.

It’s an old procedure at this point that different doctors have different opinions on. In my case, I had a second opinion from a doctor who thought he was going to tell me no, but then he looked at my history of treatment and went “yeah at this point, you have no other option. It’s this or live with what you’ve got and I would say go for it.” Considering he was going in prepared to tell me no that was actually very encouraging and I’m glad I did it. But it does not mean it is for everyone, I highly recommend if you are considering it to get two or three opinions on it, and to exhaust all your other options.

By that point I had pretty much integrated every single piece of equipment that could give me a relief and had done multiple rounds of steroids - both oral and injection. It would always get close to getting better, then would start re-inflaming. I’m 18mo out now and doing great.

I had it for years, even had to get cortisone shots in the bottom of my feet.

The only solution that worked for me was stretching. When you are standing on a step, let your heel hang down as low as possible one foot at a time. Do this for both feet and do it with straight legs and bent knees multiple times a day. It only takes about a minute and does an amazing job of curing plantar.

This worked for me too but I do it as a calf raise instead of a stretch.

when I had plantar fascitis the only thing that helped was finding the right running/working out shoes. It was like magic in how quickly that fixed it.

In my case, I needed shoes with more support around the mid-foot so the feet didn't rotate in or out too much. The flip side is that as soon as I wear the wrong kind of shoes my feet let me know within a couple of workouts.

I also wear superfeet insoles in all my casual shoes.

The brand that works for you may not be the same as mine but Hokas work well right now and Saucony ProGrid Omnis worked really well too in the past. Saucony unfortunately keeps changing the names of their shoes but I think the current "Grid" type shoes are similar.

Asics, Mizunos, Brookes, etc. were all useless to me.

So, I would say keep trying different pairs of shoes.

I'm usually a big fan of sports medicine and physical therapy, but in this case those fields were pretty clueless about deducing the cause beyond general platitudes.

Edit: To add, my symptoms were first caused by wearing the wrong kind of shoes because Saucony stopped making the ones I was used to and I tried another brand on someone's advice.

This sounds like my problem. I do have an over pronation problem when I walk barefoot. I have arch supporting shoe inserts, but I think my sneakers allow too much ankle roll.

I have Brookes right now. They felt good when I first got them, but they just didn't hold up. I think my local shoe store must have too many Brookes shoes. They push them really hard every time I go.

Im sure after that much time you have your own remedies but for me —-a golf ball, tennis ball, and on severe pain days a frozen water bottle under my desk does wonders when mine is inflamed. Just take off a shoe and roll your foot over each rotating golf, tennis, water bottle.

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