Riley Reid on AI: 'I Don't Want Porn to Get Left Behind'
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They also seems to be driving "research" in stuff like merging methods, model "grafting," and llm evaluation. Some examples:
https://rentry.co/ayumi_erp_rating
https://huggingface.co/NeverSleep/Mistral-11B-OmniMix-bf16
https://huggingface.co/Sao10K/Euryale-1.3-L2-70B
And for what its worth, HuggingFace does not seem to care. The model repo isn't mostly porn like CivitAI, but they seem to be OK with a significant amount of it.
Almost no one except the payment processors care about porn text/video/images. But once they find out what's hosted on huggingface, they'll be quick to react I'm sure.
Not because they are at the scale of Reddit or Twitter, but they are at the very center of AI World, and it would look really bad to shareholders and the finance crowd if they made a fuss over an AI company.
And HF themself trained an "uncensored" model (Zephyr 7B), and very specifically pointed out that model performance seemed to be better without the alignment.
I recall seeing - many many years ago - a WoW video "The internet is for porn" . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgNOyCnbqg
Then more recently there was the "Pornhub. The biggest archive of nothing" advertising - SFW - https://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-detail/pornhub-...
I cannot see any scenario where porn 'would be left behind'.
Reid isn't suggesting porn, the medium, will be left behind (just the opposite, really). She wants to make sure that porn, the people who make up the industry, are able to reap the benefits of AI. She wants to make sure at the very least that some unaffiliated AI project isn't just stealing these people's work, names, likenesses, etc., and selling it.
While I see her point, I think her point will fail.
An avid follower, 'connoisseur' if you prefer, of say Riley Reid may well recognise that she, or parts of her, are not real in whatever they are watching.
But if they do not care but they like what they see they will be back for more.
Her reaction is the same as mainstream actors concerned about voice reproduction, likeness reproduction and more.
One day (famous actor) will die. Later, they will headline a movie that people rave about. They are not dead yet, but ABBA Voyage.
Audrey Hepburn is long dead, but a certain chocolate brand exploits her.
AI will exploit those in entertainment because there is money there.
Yep. This is one of the many things that I detest about how this technology will inevitably be used.
I have a problem with it at a deep level. It appears that the things about these technologies that excite people the most are those things that are direct attacks on reality. It's bad enough that large segments of society is already in a place where truth doesn't matter. Now comes tools to make it possible that reality itself doesn't matter anymore.
The question about who gets paid when I buy that program is going to take decades, maybe a lifetime to settle.
Edit: I think the closest approximation of a solution to the compensation/control questions re digital content in an age of on-demand generative AI will involve content creators of all stripes self-hosting and self-publishing to make it easy for fans to directly patronize. Trying to stop clones is a fool’s errand.
Sounds like thinly veiled ludditism to me, why would it be necessary for AI porn to steal anybody’s likeness? I’m sure the 100% generated content is fine without any need for that.
It’s hard to drum up any sympathy for such an exploitative industry (exploitative for both the participants and the customers). Am I supposed to care that pornographers ability to profit of their unhealthy and addictive product is in jeopardy?
Just look at what people currently do with the models. You already see a lot of deepfake attempts. This will only increase as the technology improves. If you can generate a scene from scratch people will ask it to generate a full porn movie with the actor/actress of their choice.
> It’s hard to drum up any sympathy for such an exploitative industry (exploitative for both the participants and the customers).
I think if you care about an actor losing income over AI generated works, you would naturally care about a porn actor losing income over this. Especially when the AI used your work as training data and might reproduce your likeness without you getting anything out of it. I can understand the dislike for the industry because parts of it prey on the weak to make money.
If we make a legal framework for movie actors it should also apply to pron actors.
Currently, people either make content with entirely generated personas, or make deepfake content of people who are not porn actresses at all. I've been following the commentary around this topic, and I've never even heard of somebody using AI to generate porn of people who are already porn actresses.
> I think if you care about an actor losing income over AI generated works, you would naturally care about a porn actor losing income over this.
In general I don't care about people losing their jobs to new technology. I do support the actors who were being strong-armed permanently signing away the rights to their likeness, and I sympathise with them, because what they do is valuable for society.
Apart from to the extent to which they themselves are exploited, I have no sympathy at all for pornography industry participants. What they do is detrimental to society, and generally revolves around exploiting their customers, especially the weird new parasocial only-fans model.
So none of the reasons why I might care about the actors union complaints apply to the porn industry.
> If we make a legal framework for movie actors it should also apply to pron actors.
There already is a legal framework for managing this. It is called personality rights or the right of publicity. There's no need at all for any new laws to regulate this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJRAXjHwnOk
Edit: Seeing sibling replies, I'm glad most people do know.
Right, but "The internet is for porn" is also a specific song from the musical Avenue Q, and that's the song that's being sung in the WoW video linked above. So the parent poster wasn't talking about the sentiment in general, but the specific song being used.
"I see your kineograph of a galloping horse and raise you this one of a burlesque dancer."
Relevant: <https://np.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bmp1bt/why_im_ro...>
(Context: Retribution Paladin in "classic" (the original release of) World of Warcraft has weak attacks compared to other classes/specs.)
I remember that too… what was it, 15 years ago?
I definitely wasn’t expecting that video to resurface and be actually relevant lol
On the broader topic of AI companion chatbots: a bad idea! There are so many opportunities in life to develop real relationships, with real people.
I think I disagree with the sentiment, but I definitely disagree with the conviction.
I think it's possible that chatbots will help people prepare and refine their relationship skills, such that "real" relationships are more likely and more successful. Think of chatbots as simulations, which are used in everything from medical to military to HR contexts. Maybe that's not all bad?
I'm 100% sure chatbots will be used in ways I'd characterize as "not healthy", but I'm not at all sure that's any of my business, or that those to-me negative uses will outweigh more positive usages.
By practicing with ai porn bots? Created by the advertising (manipulation) tech giants of the future? How skewed and messed up would your norms be after a while?
"Trash in, trash out" as they say.
The bots could be created with the intention of making human relationships better, not worse. It could call out harmful behavior or point people into better directions, and similar ways.
"No Dave, doing X to your partner might not be appreciated, talk with them about it or may I suggest these alternatives?"
(1) Are those the kind of bots being created?
(2) Are those the kinds of bots that will be commercially successful?
2: ...Nope.
Well... shit.
Chatbots miss the point entirely and will only make the loneliness worse.
People who are intolerant of "bad" relationships aren't ready for relationships. Seeing the worst of each other, keeping things honest, and working through it together is the relationship. Doing that with a bot is cheating yourself hard out of life's most important moments.
Forgetting about the technology for a moment, it's already a bad idea to be overexperienced. People get jaded and turn into manipulators. The other problem with experience is that preferences change. The dating market is already bad enough and full of crazy expectations fueled by scammers and the corporate overlords.
Trying to do better and avoid pain just makes you less compatible and is very naive. Training your preferences on bots ensures you will stay alone and addicted.
It's like having an imaginary girlfriend in your head. If it makes that person happy then why do other people feel bad for the guy? Because although that guy may look happy, and maybe is happy right now, most people don't really believe that's a recipe for happiness in the long term. People see somebody on a path to loneliness and pity them for it.
Similar to why social media, despite "everyone being on there and available to everyone," doesn't seem to mitigate loneliness.
I remember the first time I played Echo VR. I'm not sure it was because I wasn't used to VR, because of the duration I played the first time or what, but the first minutes after removing the VR headset, I had some sort of disassociation with my arms in real-life.
That must have been back in 2017/2018 sometime. Add in current generation of voice recognition and generation, better performance for both headsets and the games themselves, LLM to help the "partner" to feel more alive regarding behavior and I think you could get pretty close to "fooling" someone if they use it enough.
I'd guess something like that would make loneliness worse in the world though, rather than better.
But to the extent (some) people substitute chatbots for real relationships because chatbots are infinitely forgiving and don't promote maturation, I think the harm could be a group of perpetual children who don't have the real-world support structure to deal with real-world issues like needing long term medical care.
If it does lead to happy, healthy people—maybe it isn't bad. However, I don't have any expectation that it would result in happy or healthy people, and a reasonably strong belief that it would result in the opposite.
OTOH, it might prove useful in giving advice on how to help others.
In our current world of seeming abundance, it's hard (for me) to wrap my mind around the fact that material considerations are actually important. This is why some people are concerned about shifts in demographics.
One example is that societies can reach a point where there are not enough people of working age to provide the services and goods for the "nonworkers" (retired + infirm + students + children)
Anything that has the potential to cause a step-decrease in birthrate has the potential to cause a big economic/political disturbance, and a 'distraction' from traditional human relationships definitely has that potential, as people only have so many years where they can reproduce.
Even therapists consider it valuable to therapy that you don’t get to talk to your therapist 24/7. The ability to sit with your issues independently is important— just as important is the ability to not freak out when a friend doesn’t text you back asap.
To quote the Dude, "That's like, your opinion man". You're painting with a very broad brush based on your experiences and are expecting everyone else to be the same thing as you. This shows a lack of critical thinking on your part.
We're seeing it here and in the graphic design industry right now because that's what the large majority of people are using AI for. But just like with photography, and just like with the internet, it's not going to stop there.
In my personal opinion, this wave is coming EVEN IF AI ends up not being as perfect as people are currently envisioning it as. Because even if it's not perfect, it's convenient and that's already been proven thanks to the likes of ChatGPT and Midjourney.
The AI Revolution is here, and, unfortunately, everyone will need to figure out their place in this new world.
Uh, that’s not a potential future, its today. It's happening in tech, today (as mentioned in TFA, that’s part of what got Reid interested), it is a big part of the issues behind the recent SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes in mainstream film/TV. It's happening across a wide range of industries today, not just porn.
We saw technological innovations like Disney’s Xerox machine technique that was used for 101 Dalmatians, and of course we saw computer animation basically decimate hand-drawn animation almost entirely. Even in areas where animation is hand drawn, it’s usually done so in a digital workflow.
The people out there that are scared of AI and refuse to use it are making a mistake. It’s here. It’s not going to get less capable, it’s going to keep getting more capable. I think the average person should try to be an early adopter to have an advantage in our new world.
Even if AI doesn't take your job, it almost certainly will take most of the value it has. I don't need a $175k dev when I can use a model and a $60k dev to do the same thing. Or on the graphics side, artists are a dime a dozen, I don't need the cream of the crop if they are just gonna be fixing up mangled AI hands.
Current trends in writing & editing appear to be that you need a rare and expensive person to get the kind of whole-number multiplier out of AI tools that people initially expected. And it's still not a large whole number.
Give the tools to someone who's not got exception taste and skill, and you're lucky if the multiplier's greater than 1 at all.
[EDIT] Exception if your output is expected to be crap and you don't care about accuracy. It's a huge boon to spam of most forms, and astroturfing.
AI will likely improve dramatically, as will the general persons ability to work with it. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if typewriter operators outpaced nascent word processor users in the beginning.
I'm not so sure about ability to work with it. Middling Excel skills still make you a wizard able to do things nobody else can, in most offices (though not most tech offices). Hell, I've seen knowing how to use the Windows file explorer at a very low level of competence put a person in the top five percent by computer ability in an office. Within the last couple years.
Most folks can barely use the tools we have, and aren't going to be able to get good output from anything like the current set of AI tools. The ones who can, won't be cheap, and may be hard to replace like-for-like—I think a lot of companies are going to settle on more, cheaper, more-interchangeable workers than replacing them with a few AI tool experts with hard-to-measure-or-quantify skills.
The tools themselves need an added ability to reflect and distinguish reality from imagination and suited-to-task from unsuited-to-task, to get as-much better as they need to be to deliver what some are supposing they surely will, and AFAIK that's not the kind of thing we're going to get with "LLMs, but more and bigger" and related techniques, but will require some new breakthroughs.
This is a really interesting point, phrased in a way that I wouldn't have thought to vocalize but that resonates with me. Tool-based and infrastructure-based changes that vastly improve efficiency and output based on competency with the tools/infrastructure are common; there's a lot of low-hanging fruit that is nevertheless uncommon for people to grab and use.
Assuming current AI generation improves in exactly the way its proponents are expecting (which is it's own separate conversation), it is still probably worth spending a little time trying to figure out whether it's a tool that will actually see mass adoption or whether it'll end up in the same category as many of the other excellent tools that exist today that have remained inaccessible or unattractive to most people.
Some tools do get mass adoption and people become competent with them at a mass-level. But only some, and it doesn't seem to strictly map to the quality of the tool. I'm not sure I can easily tell/predict the difference and where a theoretical future AI would fall; I would need to think about it more. But I just wanted to chime in and say that it's a good insight.
Do those skills translate directly to a job/pay, or are they simply nice-to-have competencies inside other jobs? I've always worked as an ops/analyst/spreadsheet guy but I've found over the years that those formula manipulation skills never actually translate to "advancement". They enable me and my company to do things easier than they would have otherwise, but appear as nice-to-have rather than valued in it's own right.
Put another way - Is there actually a career where the primary hard skill is "I'm good at excel"?
I know that a lot, and I mean a lot of people watch porn - yet I don’t know anyone who would describe themselves as “cherishing” the industry for being good to them. Heck, most “performers” say… it’s absolutely merciless to them; because the moment they aren’t in the perfect prime of their lives, they’re done.
And/or: this could simply be the kind of quasi-Stockholm-Syndrome often seen of those in exploitative relationships, be they labor or otherwise.
But while I believe the many disgusting stories we’ve heard about that industry, I’d be hesitant to make assumptions about the motives and experiences of any one individual, in either direction.
At the end of the day, there's a lot of money in that profession, and I can certainly see how someone would cherish the money it produced for them. It's far from the only industry which participants will age out of quickly.
While I’m certainly sympathetic to the “sex work is work” perspective, it’s worth considering the full implications: for instance, that there would be nothing stopping sexual services being included in job descriptions for other lines of work (“administrative assistant with benefits”). It’s the thin end of the wedge, to ask how truly “consensual” employment relationships can be, sexual or otherwise, in contexts of power asymmetry.
Sounds like work in general, really. Most people wills say that their work is merciless, yet the "top 1%" will tell you a completely different story. I expect Reid can be considered a "top 1%"-er.
Why is it that your knee-jerk reaction here is just to discount their opinion entirely in place of your own (likely entirely un-informed) opinion about it?
Twitch-like live streaming with micropayments was first seen in porn.
Subscriptions, micropayments, VR, etc.
Fully AI webcam girls are on the horizon, that will completely change the porn industry. These chatbots are just money grabs at horny dudes.
I didn't expect myself to be agreeing with Riley Reid and her dad today.