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Comment by Retric | Hacker News Reader

Probably closer to 8-14k if you’re not willing to leave the dent. The famed 42k bill was for a rear end collision that caused more damage than it looked like. Cars are much safer today but crumple zones mean minor fender benders result in huge repair bills. However, they are also a major part of the 90+% reduction in vehicle fatalities per mile over the last 100 years.

“They took the R1T to a certified Rivian body shop who said the entire rear quarter panel, as well as some tailgate internals, needed replacing. The total cost of replacing an entire body panel and some tailgate bits was reportedly just over $14,000.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns...

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I was rear ended about 8 years ago. I was in a lane that is parking most of the day (like when I stopped) and no stopping/anti-congestion during rush hour. My Camaro was hit by a person traveling at least at the 45MPH speed limit. They were on their phone and thankfully were so angry they unintentionally confessed it all to the police office taking the report. I ended up not paying a cent to fix the car, but I did get a copy of the bill.

All in all the cost to repair it was in excess of $18,000 from a third party shop that didn’t do a great job on the finish. That was only $5k less than the Kelly Bluebook value for my car at that point in time.

In short, it costs a lot to repair crash damage. That’s something people probably don’t think about too deeply if they have comprehensive coverage and pay just their deductible.

A dent is much different than a 45mph crash. At that speed you have to replace half of the car. We have done those at our shop on an occasion. It’s rare as it’s a pricy repair.

It actually wasn’t far off from the “one panel” as the 5th Gen Camaro has a long panel that stretches from the bumper to the tip of the A Pillar. Otherwise it was a bumper cover, crash structure (which is disposable above 10MPH) and a trunk lid. The biggest cost was the panel.

> In short, it costs a lot to repair crash damage

...and I suspect the car will never be "right" again.

Mine was actually fine. GT3 race cars get straightened on the same rigs after crashes so it apparent works ok for a harder use case than daily driving. The computerized rigs are better than the old days.

In my case I did have a couple trim pieces that didn’t completely match.

The challenge with these repairs is that they only focus on the body part. However, nobody knows the damage to the other systems in the car when hit at 45mph. Imo, it would have been better for the insurance company to total the car and pay you to buy another one.

I had a VW Sirocco back in the 1980s and had to replace a rear taillight assembly; brake, turn, stop lights. I think it cost about $200 at the time which was a shocking amount. I probably only made $200 per a week in my job.

My uncle who knew a lot about cars gave me some advice. He said check how much an alternators costs before you buy a car. VWs seemed to be cheap to people but the parts were astoundingly expensive. But me as a teenage ignored all that. Kind of like people now buying Tesla for the looks, technology but pay dearly for any body damage.

I find it funny that all the Porsche guys try to find interchangeable parts with VW. Makes sense there is probably overlap between the manufacturing. I do the same thing with my old cars.

I drifted into the back of a car on snow and ice. My car was going 10-15mph. $15K of damage repaired at an independent shop... (they did an amazing job and fought the insurance company for OEM over pattern parts). Car was worth under $20K. Maybe $17K?

If I showed you a photo of the damage you would believe me even less...

(The morning I got the car back, someone drove into the front and caused another $12K of almost identical damage. That was a great day)

Vehicle fatalities for people inside the car but not for those outside. We’ve made the average vehicle much more dangerous for anyone not in another large vehicle.

You got a stat for this?

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200302-ghsa.html

It's unsurprising when you think about it: America is full of larger trucks which have to meet o on the laxest of regulations to minimize pedestrian damage in case of a collision. Where before the contact zone might be on the knees, many a modern truck will hit a pedestrian in the chest. Add to that how America sets up situations very unsafe street crossings, often 8 lanes wide without a median, and increased pedestrian deaths are unsurprising.

Note that this is a matter of most security freatures: Good crumple zones don't lead to tall trucks with large hoods. The only one that adds risk is the curtain airbags that have lead to wider A pillars, and with that somewhat lower visibility. But we could make cars safe and also safer for pedestrians: Just not by driving heavier, taller vehicles that look like 18 wheelers and have frontal dead zones that could hide multiple Miatas.

Walkability in the US is indeed dire, but:

> Add to that how America sets up situations very unsafe street crossings, often 8 lanes wide without a median

I don't think I've ever crossed an 8 line highway on foot (US native). I definitely wouldn't call it "often". Maybe in a place like LA or Houston? I do cross 4 lanes pretty frequently, though.

They are everywhere in suburban USA.

Arterial roads, such as those lined with big box stores and shopping plazas, are commonly 3 lanes in each direction at 40mph speed limits (which means cars are driven at 45mph+), plus turning lanes.

Your best case scenario is the crossing being ~56ft, but 70ft+ crossings are normal for busy intersections. Which are ones you would also want to walk across.

Even a two lane in each direction road will commonly have a turning lane or two, making the intersection a 5 to 6 lane wide crossing.

I spent time in a couple of midwestern cities this year and was shocked at how wide the streets were. It was mind-blowing to me, coming from a city in the northeastern US. The typical road was wider than the "highways" we have near me (not interstate, but they are numbered state routes).

It also threw me off when walking as I could see I'd have to go a couple of blocks but every road crossing took a few minutes. Invariably I'd have to wait at least one light cycle, perhaps 2 if I was crossing both angles. And those light cycles were long.

The worst part was that it was rare to see much vehicular traffic at all except during some key times. What a waste of space.

The insane part is that there are in many cases NO trees along the road. Lawns everywhere, concrete. Ok, maybe a few trees, think 1 tree every 20m, and barely any bushes. A chance to contain that madness and sound levels, but nah, gotta see the huge billboards clearly from kilometers away...

I had to walk down one of these roads in Denver, let me see if I can find it.

W Alameda Avenue. 7+ lane for a lot of its length. Super sad walk.

9 lane intersections are extremely common in Phoenix. 3 lanes in each direction, 2 lanes for a left turn, and 1 lane for a right turn. Often times there will be a small median where one could wait out a light, but not always. Scottsdale @ McDowell[1] is an example of one without. If you pan around to any of the major intersections (every 1.25 miles in each direction, generally), they are pretty much all this large.

1: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K4Qs5EtTp8Ms6DyC8

Pedestrian Safety: We Just ERASED 40 Years of Progress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEj-pyjA2oo

I guess thats where AEB technologies come into play

[1]:https://twitter.com/remouherek/status/1716012670262931946

It will be a very long time before all cars will have systems like this (and I mean all cars on the road, not ones being sold).

This is why it’s important that we fix street design to lower speed limits, reduce conflicts at intersections, and improve safety of road users outside of cars.

Subaru had FCW since 1999, AEB since 2008...

> The famed 42k bill was for a rear end collision that caused more damage than it looked like.

This is the Paintless Dent Repair (PDR) for that Rivian that got the famously large bill. They go through what all would need to be removed to replace the panel. It seems extensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPfy5djvLc

To me this seems like a design failure (maybe intentional?)

I'd think a properly designed crumple zone would only crumple at a "fatality" speed and not at fender-bender speeds. I remember asking a friend why you almost never see Lexus in China - and they said they notoriously crumpled at the slightest collision (there are a lot of very low speed fender benders on city streets there). Other Japanese brands seemed to not have this reputation

There’s been an effort to minimize the damage at very low speed (under 5MPH), but it’s harder to optimize for fender benders than you might think. People tend to break before collision so crumple zones are optimized for lower than highway but still deadly speeds ~40 MPH.

New car buyers also have insurance so they rarely care much about collision repair costs. The fact fender benders don’t total the car is just about the only metric car buyers care about.

"just" over $14,000.

You can buy a new car with that amount.

Not in the US, you can't.

A new (used) car, perhaps.

Mitsubishi Mirage is ~$17k and gets incredible gas mileage. Certainly not $14k but not _that_ far off.

This has not been the case for years now.

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