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Comment by suzzer99 | Hacker News Reader

Related to the psychological vs. physiological discussion: I can say with confidence that the first time I did ecstasy changed how I look at the world. We went for a walk barefoot on warm pavement and it was the most wonderful thing I ever felt. I realized on a visceral level that so much of our personal happiness is based on how we look at things, not what happens to us.

I don't know if I got any chemical benefit from subsequent use, other than fun (with the consistently worsening serotonin crash afterwards). But just being able to step outside my usual angsty 19-year-old brain for a few hours had a profound effect.

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Same thing happened to me the first time I tried using molly. I am convinced it was actually a fake of some amphetamines and caffeine or something. But it still had an effect on me: for the first time in my life I was able to have fun while being surrounded by a crowd of people (it was a music festival). It didn't make me feel dumbed down like alcohol used to. I just felt happy, just wanted to have fun and enjoy the moment. After that I realized I had the sparkle in me. I even knew I could do it without drugs. That was the beginning of my healing process. I've remembered that experience many times later and still come back to it sometimes.

Similar experience here. It triggered the thought in my mind of "this feeling exists". It's weird to explain. It's like MDMA created a reference in my mind and, instead of making me to fall into the process of "I need the drug to be happy", it made me to search for things in life that bring me that feeling of happiness and comfort I got as a reference from the experience. I remember vividly the walk to home after the party, with a beautiful girl holding my arm, the hot shower afterwards...it was the first time in my whole existence that I honestly thought "life is beautiful".

Fun is arguably the best (some might say the only authentic) way to cure depression.

Yeah but that serotonin crash afterwards was bleak. At this point in my life I can do E about once a year. Any more than that and I get really depressed afterwards.

Although I do know people who are clinically depressed, and the hangover/crash doesn't bother them as much, because it's their normal state anyway.

Dancing is arguably the best (some might say the only authentic) way to cure quadriplegia.

I take your point. I meant it in the context of an earlier poster - if not the title topic, itself - who drew a line between ketamine_as_medication and ketamine_for_fun, and implied that that recreational drugs as a form of depression therapy were merely a way to have 'a fun trip', and not of any real benefit.

However, insofar as fun is synonymous with happiness, which is antonymous with depression, every cure for depression involves the end goal of fun - one way or another. Pharmaceutically / chemically, emotionally, socially, intellectually, spiritually, you-name-it.

Therefore, regarding this topic, I was positing that, where usage of recreational drugs as a novel cure for depression is concerned, the fun is the curative. But I can see how my generalisation could be interpreted as minimalising, if viewed as a pithy solution precluding all nuance - which it was not intended as!

Honestly the only thing extasy did for me was let me rave for hours to electronic music at clubs. It also opened the door for other chemical drugs which led to benders and hangovers that were so bad people who only drink alcohol have no idea are even possible.

Granted, I never did it in a quiet "therapeutic" environment, I would have thought of it as a waste because I considered the music and dancing an integral part of the experience, it's a pretty recreational and hedonistic substance after all.

Ecstacy can have great therapeutic and profound effects...

It's not that surprising that if you only use it to "rave for hours" and "open the door for other chemical drugs", then you'll find it a "recreational and hedonistic substance". That's practically a tautology.

It can be great for party setting but I recommend doing it in the safe environment with family, friends at home or in nature. The feeling of deeper connection with people or nature you already have connection with is revealing. I felt love I knew in even more direct and pure way.

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