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Comment by jjulius | Hacker News Reader

There's something a bit twisted about using my kids for their own financial gain. Hence my pirating of said shows - no issue getting those repeat views in via Plex/NAS.

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I keep thinking about Plex but I struggle with the idea of teaching my kids that stealing is okay. Like, for a little kid: "This kind of theft is okay, this kind of theft isn't." seems nuanced for a little kid.

I have a bigger struggle with trying to tell them "Someone in a special building far away can make up a rule that says I'm not allowed to arrange the bits in one section on my computer in the same order as the bits on somebody else's computer because they did it first. If enough special people agree, they can give themselves permission to come steal my money or put me in timeout in a cage for a long time."

But then it always is hard to explain things when I don't understand them myself.

Quite enjoyed that tank you.

They won’t know it’s stealing unless you tell them. As far as they’re concerned it’s just another app on the magic box that makes shows play.

Simple enough: stealing is bad, but sharing is good. If you had a replicator and could make physical things for free to give to your neighbors, of course you'd do that.

And the people who work on Sesame Street will feed and clothe and shelter themselves with the things you give them with your (nonexistent) replicator.

We don't watch Sesame Street (or much TV at all), but if we did, we'd probably stick to the pre-elmo stuff. Jim Henson died when I was an infant so I imagine he'd not be much worse off if we did pirate it. Fred Rogers would probably similarly not have much to complain about if we copied his show. Or Tex Avery, etc. etc.

That's why you need to cover up your stealing by lying.

If you own the dvd's you can guilt free run the movies from plex.

I think that's fair. But Plex isn't just for stolen content. My Plex server is full of movies/TV shows that I ripped from discs I bought. Granted that it's more expensive to do that, but that could be a viable way to ditch streaming services without setting a bad example.

For what it's worth, I have two toddlers. They're still at the age where they don't know the difference between Plex and Disney+, but I too have wondered how I'll tackle that subject with them down the road.

Why do people think it is OK to steal media? I never understand it. After university, I reduced my media stealing habits by 99+%. During/before uni, I was broke and could not afford to buy media. (Not an excuse, but just the reality.) After uni, I had a job so I could afford to buy some media.

I think a lot of people intuitively understand that there's a difference between pirating the works of JRR Tolkein, him being wildly successful and not alive anymore, and doing the same to an up-and-coming author who's eating ramen a lot. There's no difference legally, though, which is a great object lesson in how there are sharp topological differences between the world of ethics and the world of human law.

If you pay for Spotify rather than hacking it, you're really not supporting artists financially very much, right? Paying someone a millionth of a dollar to stream their music seems to me like kind of an insult, actually, and recording their song to a cassette from the radio like kind of a compliment.

> If you pay for Spotify rather than hacking it, you're really not supporting artists financially very much, right? Paying someone a millionth of a dollar to stream their music seems to me like kind of an insult, actually, and recording their song to a cassette from the radio like kind of a compliment.

This is absurd. One is paying them, the other isn’t. It’s not a “compliment” to not receive income, even if you think the income received is meaningless.

Further, the radio argument is flawed - the radio station paid to play that music for people who might record it. Johnny Torrent didn’t.

I dunno, every one of these arguments always comes down to “but I want it” and other nonsense to try to pretend that it’s ok to steal from artists. It’s the same justification I used when I was twelve and stole a pack of gum from 7-11, and it’s no less lame when the people making it are ostensibly adults.

I'm sorry that your gut disagrees with the ethical conclusion that most people, including nearly every musician I have talked to, have arrived at - I know that is a crappy feeling to have - but here we are.

> If you pay for Spotify rather than hacking it, you're really not supporting artists financially very much, right?

The majority of your money goes to the artist/right holder, "[Spotify has] an approx revenue split of 70/30 - so that’s 70% to the artist/rights holders and 30% to Spotify."[1]

[1] https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-spotify-pay-per....

70%/30% doesn't sound bad, if true; that's comparable to what Bandcamp was acclaimed for their fairness in paying their artists, if I recall correclty. I wonder what the "trick" is (if any), because I have to doubt the reality of that number. If you know and talk to musicians, it's almost absolutely unanimous that nobody ever earns a dime from any streams even if you are really popular on their platform.

Spotify is a public company. They publish their financials.[1]

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/370618/spotifys-cost-of-...

Do you teach your kids that borrowing from libraries is not OK?

I don't think it's OK to steal. I do think it's OK to copy, because the person I "stole" from still has his/her original.

Property laws exist because property is scarce. But if I copy your idea or your data, all I'm doing is wiring the neurons in my brain in the same fashion as yours, or arranging the bits on my own computer in the same order as yours.

"Intellectual property" is a contradiction in terms. I'm open to arguments that there might still be reasons it shouldn't be OK, but arguments from property rights or analogies to theft just don't work.

Selling you a product that you want your kids to have, but at a price you do not agree to, is twisted?

Pretty interesting philosophy.

I should tell that to my kids' swimming school. Or their daycare.

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