What Caroline Ellison's Testimony in SBF Trial Says on Loneliness and Workplace

I couldn't even read the entire article after that ... just skimmed it. Even if they had some kind of believe in crypto tech, in the end it was about getting rich via whatever that would take.

..."idealists"...

I wonder what the ideal was?

I used to put some amount of stock into the idea that he could've just been reckless. It's been pretty clear in the trial that at least all of the top leadership not only knew but were in on the scam, thinking they'd make and move enough money consistently to keep things going.

It's more curious to me how a bunch of people from Jane Street could believe anything like a Ponzi can keep going.

One lesson of the last ten years is the wealthy in the US are stunningly bad at spotting scam artists that appeal to their ideas of what an idealist should look like.

Arguably many people have this weakness and merely lack the resources to deploy when it is triggered.

The other thing about the “crazy kid with big dreams” thing that really bugs me is that real altruism is putting others above one’s self.

Effective Altruism, on the other hand, is roughly the belief that you, personally, should be the savior of all mankind and should also get fabulously wealthy along the way. It’s just pure egotism with good PR.

Indeed. The author claims that >50% of young people report loneliness, and then goes on to suggest that the workplace must take on the responsibility of solving this problem. But of course, no consideration is given to the other ~50% who don't report such problems. Are they going to be forced into some bizarre, far-reaching camaraderie designed or endorsed by the employer? Will this result in cliques? Forced socialization like this, especially with the implied overreach, and run by a corporate entity whose purpose is not to solve your social problems and issues with isolation for you, sounds like a recipe for manipulation, exploitation, and control; the corporate cult. No thanks! And what happens when you get laid off or go to another job? Your social network won't survive the transition.

I am not opposed to the idea that people form a healthy social environment at work. If you work at some place for long enough, if not frustrated, a society of familiarity will form. And yes, a certain mission, duty, or responsibility does bring people together, however banal. But all of this looks like people are barking up the wrong tree. It's like expecting your spouse or job to make you happy. That's not their job, and a selfish, vicious, and stupid responsibility to try to dump on someone. With the destruction of family life, the resulting disintegration of community and society, the buying into of a thoroughly ugly, nihilistic, and hedonistic culture that destroys one's very capacity to understand the nature of human relationships and to engage in them in a healthy manner, and given that work takes up most of a person's time, it may become tempting for lost people to try to dump their misplaced grievances and hopes at the feet of their company. But a company is part of society, not a substitute. This will not solve your problems. Companies serve society. Destroy society, and you destroy the raison d'etre of the company.

Don't make things worse by trying to be "happy". There is no greater source of human misery than the incessant pursuit of some vague "happiness". No one deserves to be happy. That's entitlement. Focus instead of doing what is objectively good, on the quiet pursuit of excellence. Serve the good of others (and not in some grandiose, virtue signaling, bullshit social media sense, but in many small, quiet, everyday ways, as the part of the very fabric of everyday life). The social connections will follow as societies are built not by the takers, but by givers. Perhaps along the way you will notice the necessity of the transcendent, as the immanent is not just meaningless, but impossible without the bona fide transcendent.

By that measure I guess I haven't had good work relationships since I worked in a kitchen in the early 00's, and I'm OK with that.

I worked remote for a few years before the pandemic and the sense of isolation was definitely pervasive. But that’s not because of remote work or remote relationships alone having some inherent isolating quality.

Several of my closest friends are people that I only interacted with online for several years before we ever met in person. No isolation there.

Many Businesses just aren’t really trying to make that kind of thing work long term. All effort at this point appears to be geared towards the eventual ‘return to normal’ which will probably go away once far more invasive monitoring tools are the new norm!

I'm on the opposite spectrum. I don't like socializing with my coworkers. I keep a respectful and professionally-friendly relationship with them.

I have college friends (not many, just 3 who I call close), and a family. That and life's chores/errands are enough to keep me busy when off work.

To me, relying on coworkers for companionship is not a sustainable approach because like it or not, we need to switch jobs every 2-4 years (esp. when you are junior or esp. when you are not working at a big tech company for a cushiony/chill role, which might be rare), and there is never enough time to build strong bond with anyone you work. This is also disregarding the office politics, bullcrap/hypocritical things that you see some of your coworkers do once in a while.

I don’t drink, I guess I score pretty poorly on your relationship scale. If you need to have a drink to get through the workday and get along with I’d rather work with anyone else.

Surely the other way around is equally important?

"Being able to disagree with a coworker without either party getting pissed" is the litmus test I use.