Is Canada becoming a digital ghetto? | Hacker News Reader

Is Canada becoming a digital ghetto?

cbc.ca

31 pointsksvs25 comments

Yes, in Canada our government doesn't believe in open access or competition, not unless it benefits the incumbent carriers.

Innovation in Canada is a bad word as we believe that the big carriers (Rogers, Bell, Telus, etc.) must be protected at all costs. The carriers win and innovation loses.

Don't even get me started on how startups are treated outside of the small but passionate startup communities.

It doesn't help that Bell has sent us 3 disconnection notices, stating that if the bill for (IIRC one said) August 23rd (which has to be paid at the latest by September 23rd or they'll send out a disconnection notice) isn't paid by August 18th we'll be disconnected.

Bell is run by inbred morons. They don't even know how to bill someone, they sent out disconnection notices to everyone we know who is with them. We're currently waiting to be switched over to Cogeco Cable, because we might actually get decent phone and internet service.

For a month we had crappy internet and Bell wouldn't send out a technician. I'm from the UK and when we've had problems, there's a guy out before anyone calls because they're afraid of OfCom punishing them. Here they fucking run themselves, we were told by Bell that the problem was in our house and that we'd have to pay $70 fee to fix it (this is before they even came out), this is even though we pay $10 a month so that we don't need to pay $70 when there's a problem in the house yet Mr Speaks No English can't read that on his computer screen.

Here's the punch line, when the Technician came out he said it wasn't a problem in our house. He walked to the connection box and came back, "I think I found your problem, there's a cooked rat in there. I'll switch you over to a different line." I asked about the connection speed, because it outright sucks and he said "Well I'm not supposed to do this, but I'll put your download speed as high as I can and I'll max out the upload." It's still only 1.5 meg down (we're paying for 3) and it's god damn 1 meg upload.

I love Canada, but I have to say I've moved to a fucking third world country in terms of technology. Bell is advertising it's NEW DVR service for like $200, I had a DVR like 6 years ago provided for free by Sky when we resubscribed.

This should be a warning to those who are clamoring for "net neutrality". Government regulation tends to be justified by claiming it helps the little guy. It inevitably ends up being protection for the big guy.

Problems should be viewed as opportunities to make money, not as excuses to grow government. High prices should entice competitors into the Canadian marketplace. My guess is that the very government regulations designed to protect consumers now function to keep out these competitors who could offer better services at lower prices.

Did you even click the link? Which of the examples listed in the article was due to bad regulation? A "net neutrality" bill would've forced the CRTC to rule in favor of the small ISPs, the copyright modernization act is being pushed by the Conservative party, and opposed by every "big government" party, and the SMS scandal is a failure to challenge price gouging.

I love that, without any knowledge of Canadian telecom regulation, you're ready to announce that over-regulation is the problem. Way to go, brownie.

The problem is this: if the Canadian telecom market were open to competition, why doesn't a new competitor move in and clobber the existing phone companies in the market? I read the article and in two of the three complaints, the writer is angry because government doesn't fix the problems he sees in the marketplace. The government won't force Bell to give small ISPs unlimited bandwidth and the government is allowing SMS "price gouging". (The writer's other complaint is that the government wants to modernize copyright, I assume that means that government wants to extend the existing copyright laws to the internet.)

The writer implies that outside competition is not a viable solution and that consumer wellbeing is solely a function of government whim.

Assuming the writer knows what he's (not) talking about, i.e., that outside competition is not an option, then I can only assume that the reason it's not an option is because of the existing regulatory environment.

The writer's proposed solution seems to me to be calling for yet more regulation.

So it appears that in Canada government is keeping competition out and not doing enough to force existing companies to increase their quality of service and decrease their prices.

Excuse me for assuming that over-regulation is the problem. Now I see that Canada needs more regulation. Government there is not doing enough to tell businesses what they need to do, what kind of contracts they can make, and what prices they can charge. Of course this would also make Canada more open to competition. Businesses just love to do business in a place where government bureaucrats help them with lots of detailed rules that require teams of lawyers to figure out. Businesses, especially startups, also like it when government forces them to rewrite contracts and charge lower prices. Thanks for setting me straight.

>> I can only assume that the reason it's not an option is because of the existing regulatory environment.

The usual explanation in telecom is the natural monopoly argument, also prevalent in other utility services with high cost of market entry and network effects.

>f the Canadian telecom market were open to competition, why doesn't a new competitor move in and clobber the existing phone companies in the market?

Barriers to entry. Infrastructure costs. Gov't incentives to provide better services where the incentives reward after the fact are the solution. Not throwing money at the problem with no oversight.

The main is the barriers to entry. Although both the Liberals and Conservatives have said they plan to pass a bill enabling the entry of foreign companies. Virgin Mobile is in Canada

As soon as companies like T-Mobile can enter the country I have little doubt Telus will go bankrupt, or near to it, as it's solely cellphone. Telus does seem to try and innovate, but it's trapped on the CDMA network but is releasing a HSPA in 2010. Rogers already has the HDSPA and has for a while, Bell has the CDMA high-speed mobile, which barely any handset manufacturers actually provide new phones in CDMA.

I actually wish I could move near the Falls so that I could steal T-Mobile USA off my old T-Mobile UK phone. The ironic thing is that international text is cheaper than going with Telus or Bell.

A "net neutrality" bill would've forced the CRTC to rule in favor of the small ISPs

Can you name a regulation that in practice has benefited small companies at the expense of larger companies? Most regulations get enacted in two steps 1) a moral argument is made for the need for some sort of government intervention. 2) while no one is paying attention to the sausage making in Congress, the bill is worded to actually favor specific interests, often at the expense of the public.

To believe that "net neutrality" would end up different is the triumph of hope over experience. Big companies have far more money to lobby, and they always win the regulatory game.

In my opinion, what is wrong with Canada is Canadians. Nobody cares. The government, the companies, the unions, everybody is f*-ing up that country, yet, people could care less. It's even worse, ask any Canadian, and chances are they would tell you what a great country Canada is and how Canada has it so much better than the US. Last year, 77% of Canadians ranked Canada as 10 out of 10 as the best country to live in. 77%!!! I doubt that even the brainwashed North Koreans would vote 77% for their country.

This article makes 3 very valid points about the way Canada is currently viewing the digital area in such a backwards way. There's other examples of CRTC negligence such as when they mandated the creation of a "Canadian" HBO since for some reason we couldn't get the stream directly from the US.

In the States they also have fiber installations going directly into the houses and I haven't even heard of anything like that here in Canada. ADSL has a "Max" package of 6mbps which is laughable, while the cable operator (Shaw) has one that's 25mbps however they charge $100/month! And that's just for Internet! This is the biggest annoyance to me personally as Canada used to be a leader in broadband availability but we've stayed with the same speed structure for the last 5+ years and are falling faster and faster behind the leading nations.

With the new frequencies available for wireless bandwidth hopefully we'll see some new competition in the cell phone sector as it's desperately needed!

Ya, there's some stuff that sucks in regards to digital media in Canada but it's not like everything is ruined once a bill is passed. If a new C-61 makes it through, it will suck for a few years until people get annoyed and it will be overturned or amended.

Here in Québec, Microsoft has the monopoly in the public sphere. The government does not do any bid invitations when it comes to buying computers. The open source is completely ignored.

Does that mean that the U.S. is already a digital ghetto?

Hah. You wish. I just spent 4 months living in Seattle, and here's how the cell service stacks up. In both places I paid $50 a month (give or take a few bucks).

In the US: - 300 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends - voicemail, call display, etc - unlimited data

In Canada: - 200 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends

Notice the big difference? :P America is behind the curve on technology infrastructure, but it's still a lot better off than Canada.

I pay $30 a month in canada for that canadian plan + voicemail and caller id. You have to get retention plans for that although. Data is the killer. And I think the infrastructre here is just as good, it's just they want to make more profit, and because of the duopoly situation, they can.

How about the fact that all American plans come with free national long distance. That's unheard of in Canada. You get billed long distance for calling a city an hour away.

Here's the deal I've currently arranged with Telus. This is after much haggling as well as the fact I've been a customer for 3 years already. The deals OK, but nothing like in the states. The thing that really pisses me off is the system access fee!

19.3 - 200 daytime mintues, unlimited evenings @ 5pm & unlimited weekends // $7 - 2500 text // $25 - unlimited data // $15 - unlimited long distance (Canada + US) // free - unlimited incomning // free - vm3 / call display

Plan Total: $66.3

Plus: $7.5 - System access fee // $.5 - 911 fee // $3.72- Tax

Grand Total: $77.30

The System Access fee is an outright fraud. If any other industry tried to do what the telcos did with the System Access fee they would be charged and convicted as criminals. In Canada the wireless cartel does whatever they want. They have a defacto oligopoly and are criminals in my mind.

more info: http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/services/cellphones...

Excerpt: "The verdict on the “system access fee”? It’s a made-up charge by the wireless companies disguised as a government fee – the only thing it accesses is your wallet."

I'm getting raped on my iPhone plan.

250 mins + unlimited Rogers to Rogers/Fido calling ($40) 6GB data ($30) Call display/visual voicemail/2500 txts ($15) System Access Fee ($6.95) + 911 fee ($0.50) Tax (~$11)

I read "Fido" and thought Fidonet and said "wow, Canada _is_ really out of date". Although it would be cool to go old school and get access to a fed Fidonet BBS on your phone.

er, s/ fed //; Not sure where that came from.

The article specifically pointed out how America has much more access to modern digital conveniences that are not available in Canada.

I should have been specific to Canada's two bills, C-60 and C-61, which both attempted to ratify Canadian IP law to the WIPO treaties. The U.S. already ratified to those treaties, which got them the DMCA.

Clearly our cellular plans suck, but the U.S.'s intellectual property laws remain more restrictive than ours (for now).

Telcos are screwing .... everyone. News at 11.

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