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Comment by 7moritz7 | Hacker News Reader

I really think Monero in particular deserves way more criticism for their practice. Bitcoin is one thing, Monero is created for and marketed towards cybercriminals, you don't need to be a communications expert to get that premise. I haven't seen it used once for any legitimate purpose. Atleast with Bitcoin and Ethereum you can get buy some legitimate things like VPNs or NFTs

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/06/moner...

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You could say exactly the same thing about any form of encryption.

I haven't bought much with Monero, but I always offer it because I adore the premise. I personally think its great, one of the few truly valuable cryptocurrencies.

+1 for Monero.

"Monero is created for and marketed towards cybercriminals..."

"You could say exactly the same thing about any form of encryption..."

That seems very untrue. I like my credit card details to be encrypted when I send them for the exact opposite of assisting cybercrime.

> > I haven't seen it used once for any legitimate purpose

> You could say exactly the same thing about any form of encryption.

Maybe YOU could, and maybe you'd even be telling the truth, if you're going to this site over http and and not https.

Monero was built and used for privacy purposes but it gets abused by cybercriminals for malicious purposes. Just like all cryptocurrencies and even plain paper cash.

> Monero was built and used for privacy purposes

So was Encrochat

I thought the goal of NFT was money laundering with something of fake value?

Doesn't TorBroswer also deserve more criticism by that logic? Here is their reply to this:

https://support.torproject.org/abuse/

People abandon all analysis when it comes to Tor. Yes, Tor serves a legitimate purpose (in contrast to Monero, noone has changed my mind yet), but I'd argue that value would also be fullfilled without onion services. If I have to gess 99 % of onion services are illegal activity. The only exception to this rule is SecureDrop which I am certain could be realized with just a regular server too. You need to self host it anyways.

I use Monero to donate to FLOSS software projects and as a way of paying friends without surveillance capitalism demanding I tell them what my private transactions are for. If these aren't "legitimate purposes" then there no point in engaging in this conversation. Maybe you're happy with being subject to corporate panopticons of Venmo/Cash App/whatever but I'd rather not engage with companies that seek to demand an ever larger pool of information from me.

Onion services provide authentication and NAT traversal while maintaining security and anonymity. Just because you aren't using that functionality doesn't mean it doesn't have a use.

How do you intend to have a clearnet application that can stand up to the same threat model that SecureDrop does?

> Maybe you're happy with being subject to corporate panopticons of Venmo/Cash App/whatever

Get this, I've never used either of these services before. And the even crazier part is that if I did, they wouldn't know what I'm giving my friends money for anyways. And lastly, just use cash if your decision making is being opressed by the surveillance capitalism. Monero serves no purpose that hasn't already been fullfilled by a non-dubious measure

> How do you intend to have a clearnet application that can stand up to the same threat model that SecureDrop does?

I don't know, ask Stripe maybe how they haven't gotten any customer data stolen yet with their massive threat profile while not using Tor in any capacity

Silly me, I didn't realize that I can send cash over the Internet.

Stripe's threat modeling is nothing like SecureDrop's. Stripe has plenty of identifying information that they would be forced to surrender upon subpoena that SecureDrop simply wouldn't be able to furnish because it never has that information to begin with. How is this not apparent? Comparing the two reeks of bad faith.

> just use cash if your decision making is being opressed by the surveillance capitalism

This is morally equivalent to:

- "just send a letter through the post if you don't like EU's chat control"

- "just read the newspaper if you don't like Google's Federated Learning of Cohorts"

I'd like to believe we can get the benefits of 21st century tech without giving up our privacy to get it. Thanks to Monero that belief is a reality. You're welcome to stick with cash and the pony express if you like, but it's not a great look painting everyone who disagrees with your values as a criminal.

So Tor and I2P also should be criticized? IMO, something being away enough from the government that it starts to get abused shows how secure/private it is.

Ironically Tor is mostly funded by the US government. 80% in 2012. They are still a significant donor however I'm not sure if the percentage is still so high.

Tor and I2P allow the free flow of information, which is a net good for society. Monero allows the free flow of money which is a net negative; it effectively destroys the rule of law because those with enough money can freely commission crimes that benefit them.

Today you are on the right side of the fence. You buy things that are permitted so its all good. I wonder if you would keep the same opinion, once that changes.

But lets hope for our sake, we never get there.

you can do the same with XMR. for example Mullvad accepts XMR and BTC.

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